• Welcome to Ecoboost Performance Forum. Please log in or sign up.
collapse

MDesigns Race Spec Prototype - w/Video

Started by JimiJak, May 08, 2014, 12:32:16 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

JimiJak

I've been kicking around exhaust ideas for a while. After reading some of my questions, Spartn27 contacted me and explained he is starting up an aftermarket components company to build and market some of his ideas that he would like to see in the aftermarket world. He pitched me an idea for a prototype he had in mind...using similar technology to the Nissan GT-R exhaust. So before I go any further I have to extend a HUGE thank you to Spartn27 for reaching out to me with his ideas, and including me on his build.

We hashed out the details for a couple weeks and the research was ridiculous. After everything checked out, and the parts arrived, it was time to find a shop that would / could give us what we wanted. I landed on G&M Express in Holland, MI. Kind of a hole in the wall shop to be perfectly honest; but they had all the answers I was looking for. 30+ years of combined pipe bending between the two installers (one of which was the owner, Glenn). They subscribed to the mantra: "bending pipe is art...and you can either draw good, or you can't"...also Glenn calls everyone "Papa". LOL

I made an appt. for this afternoon, and we got right to work. They were cool with me being very active in the bay with them to get everything just how I wanted it.

**DISCLAIMER**
Beyond discussing the details of this build with Spartn27, I have NO affiliation with MDesigns or G&M Express.


First step was cutting out the stock exhaust, right up to the downpipe flange. So, let's talk about what it is we're replacing:
On the left end you can see the flex pipe on the downpipes going into the flange. From there, dual 2.25" pipes enter and exit the third cat, and go straight into the resonator.


This is what the 3rd cat (left) and res (right) look like off the car:


Looking down into the inlet of the third cat. You can see the steel honeycomb (looks like a fine mesh) that runs the length of the cat (about 10").


Looking down through the outlet of the resonator...Much to my surprise, this looks like it's just a straight piece of solid 2.25" pipe (x2) that runs the length of the resonator. My guess is it decreases resonation through the sound-deadening properties of sheer mass alone (res body about 20" long).


The dual 2.25" pipes leave the resonator and travel back to double 90* bends




Then snake up to stock mufflers and 4" Chrome tips




Looking backwards through the OEM muffler outlet you can see it's straight pipe back to the front of the muffler, where there's a flat wall, and an opening. This tells us the OEM mufflers area  chambered muffler...which I'm pretty sure is BAD for turbo's since it can create a shockwave that travels back to the turbo. Maybe less of an impact being that it's at the end of the road.


Now...on to what we put in it's place. Let's start with the front.

I had him leave the stock downpipe flanges in place for easy connections once I spring for EPP DPs.


First step was opening up about a 3" long piece of stock 2.25" pipe on the rear side of the OEM flange, to 2.5" ...x2. Then welded on 2x 2.5"-bends to widen the birth from the stock flanges, outwards.


The wider birth was needed to make the connections from the flange to the new resonator. The body is a 4"x9" oval, and is only 11" long.


Magnaflow Dual 2.5" straight through, in/out. NO-X.


Two more 2.5" bends coming out of the resonator, to reduce the birth narrower for the Y-Pipe...Yeah you heard me...Y-Pipe!


Magnaflow dual 2.5" into single 3" Y-Pipe. The purpose of reducing down to a single larger diameter pipe is to reduce surface area. Two 2.5" pipes have far greater surface area than a single 3". When you're talking laminar flow, surface area is bad. Not only does it create skim loss wherever the gasses drag across the surface, but also acts as a heat sink to cool the gasses, which makes them more dense, and again slows them down. By using a single large diameter pipe we're able to keep velocity up, friction down, and maximize the inside area of the pipe for better flow.


Not to mention all of the benefits of an X-Pipe; harmonizing exhaust gasses, etc.
Simple math would appear to give you more inside area with 2x 2.5" pipes than a single 3"...which is true...but with the added friction loss from smaller pipes, inside area is no longer the winning attribute in hyperphysics.


The single 3" pipe then travels back to where the original 2.25 pipes hit their 90's and enter another Y. This time it's backwards - Single 3" to dual 2.5"


Setup so far


From here, each 2.5" outlet is met with a single 2.5" dual 90* pipe, on an upward angle to each muffler.


...as such


Magnaflow mufflers are a similar straight through design to the resonator. Only difference being they have a slight bend in the center from offset in, center out. Same dimensions as the resonator; 4x9" Oval 11" long.


A small piece of 2.5" was welded in, to bridge to the tip


And the tips were welded in place.


2.5 to 4" Double wall stainless tips. These were originally chrome, but were professionally stripped and powder coated satin-black.


Ditto for the other side


It doesn't look like it because of the bend and the angle taking the pic from, but the center section of 3" is about 4.5' long.


Finishing touches and adding the final hangers to line up with OEM


Shot from front to back


After everything was welded in place, the entire system was coated in matte-black ceramic exhaust paint (mufflers, tips, and resonator excluded).


The result was unlike anything else currently offered for our platform. Rather than trying to make it sound like a big V8 (which is isn't), it makes it sound like what it is; a twin turbo charged, high performance, work of art.

There is ZERO buzz or rasp.
The exhaust note is VERY deep. It sounds like a 12" subwoofer just humming away.

From inside the cabin you can hear a quiet low tone that almost disappears with throttle. Cruising speed, the sound is noticeable, but not obnoxious and has no drone.

To be honest I was actually a little disappointed initially because it sounded so quiet, but after getting out and walking around the truck I noticed is has a different personality from outside the vehicle.
There really isn't any 'bubble' or 'camming' sound, it's very smooth and consistent (courtesy of our giant x-pipe (aka the 3")), the note is so smooth and deep you can feel it in your chest.
Volume is on the lower side, and overall pretty quiet with throttle.
When you let off the throttle from a rev it has a slight 'falling over itself' tone.

I'm terribly curious to hear the change once I start messing with downpipes and or intake.
No turbo whistle is audible, just like before....yet.
Butt-dyno on the way home felt like it pulled harder, but that's so subjective you'll have to take it for what it's worth.

Due to the exotic sound of this setup, I'm having a hard time providing anything remotely close to accurate with a sound-clip or video. It's just so low I cant find a mic to pic it up, but I'll play with that tomorrow too.

More follow-up and adjustments to come...but I teased you all enough throughout the day, I knew I had to get something posted! ;D

I got a decent video today, and some enlightening tinkering results!



First Video: Stock Exhaust.
Stock air box + K&N Panel Filter. No engine mods. No tune.
http://youtu.be/XhgJGxbDtsA

Second Video: A look under the XSport at the finished / installed MDesigns system from flange to second Y.
http://youtu.be/GBHfPDFuZR8

Third Video: MDesigns Exhaust Prototype
Stock air box + K&N Panel Filter. No engine mods. No tune.
http://youtu.be/y9wq6Zn83xM

As for the results of the tinkering:
I was curious where the restriction was, now that the exhaust was free'd up and I still couldn't hear any turbo noise over stock.

With an open airbox and no filter...no turbo sound.
Open downpipe flange...still no audible turbo noise.
Then both open downpipes and open intake. Still no change in turbo noise.
This leads me to believe the main restriction of air flow in or out is the downpipes.
This coincides with the large HP gains seen with larger diameter DPs, compared to small gains from exhaust and intake. Suspicion validated!
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

Josephm

You put allot work into this. THANK YOU! I really appreciate all the work you have put into this.
12' Flex EB
Unleashed X4
3rd Cat delete

BiGMaC

Just to say it again...

Nice job Jack... I know Spartn was anxious to see it on your ride.... Now we can officially talk about it... The math (MUCH better flow than any dual yet), etc.  And much cheaper than the leading catbacks!

It's available as a kit from him for shipping.... contact Spartn for details on this

Oh yea,... and much more to come soon!!

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

JimiJak

Quote from: Josephm on May 08, 2014, 01:07:01 AM
You put allot work into this. THANK YOU! I really appreciate all the work you have put into this.

Thanks guys. That's why we're all here, right? To expand this site as a resource for each other.

I didn't know what would happen with this exhaust...and no one else has done it, so no one else knew what would happen...now we ALL know what happens! lol

It's a labor of love...just like the ride itself.
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

SwampRat

Quote from: BiGMaC on May 08, 2014, 01:11:15 AM
Just to say it again...

Nice job Jack... I know Spartn was anxious to see it on your ride.... Now we can officially talk about it... The math (MUCH better flow than any dual yet), etc.  And much cheaper than the leading catbacks!

It's available as a kit from him for shipping.... contact Spartn for details on this

Oh yea,... and much more to come soon!!


Looks nice ... any plans for dyno ?

Mathematically higher flow .... but only dyno will provide positive proof .

Before stock dyno whould be nice too.
2013 SHO  ....  not mine anymore

2021 Edge ST

JimiJak

I agree that the numbers don't lie...all the math in the world counts for naught if the production isn't there in the outcome.

As for dyno plans...not much as of yet. We'll see who turns up in my area as a resource.

I'm probably much more likely to put it on a track before I put it on a treadmill.
THOSE are the real numbers IMHO. lol
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

panther427

That is looking really good. I wanna hear that in person. What does Spartan think about cutout use.  Instal one cutout in the 3 inch pipe or 2 smaller cutouts.
2013 SHO

JimiJak

Quote from: panther427 on May 08, 2014, 02:08:13 AM
That is looking really good. I wanna hear that in person. What does Spartan think about cutout use.  Instal one cutout in the 3 inch pipe or 2 smaller cutouts.

Oooooooh...I like that single 3" idea.
uh-oh wallet...

I'm sure he'll be around here tomorrow, I'm excited for his response.
I would assume nothing but good things since it's just decreasing back pressure on WOT, post boost curve engagement.
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

panther427

I want to do an electric cutout. So one 3 inch would be cheaper. (
2013 SHO

bigmoneycloser

Very cool.
Can't wait to hear a sound clip...
2014 Explorer Sport 401A
22x10.5 Vossen CVT- powder coated Matte Graphite
Pirelli Scorpion Zero Asimmetrico 285/35/22
H & R lowering springs/LMS 93 high boost/AirAid CAI/170* thermostat/3 Bar Map Sensor/Full LED interior /HID head and fog lights/weather tech digital floor mats/SharkFin antena/custom Billet foot pedals/Wilwood big brake kit/ LMS-Corsa CatBack Exhaust/LMS Catted Downpipes

SHOdded

To achieve a great product at a great price is commendable :thumb:  I forget where I read it earlier, but I think there is also some innovative work going on with Mercedes Benz and Audi exhaust systems.

I assume the paint will take care of any heat issues with the new pipes?  What were the temps on a warmed up stock exhaust vs now?  Same question with the unpainted mufflers.  May need to heat shield them in some manner.  Loss of surface area also means less heat transfer unless superior materials or superior designs are used.

Look forward to your track/dyno testing, and some sound/video clips :)
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

SRT82ECOBOOST

Excited that you guys finally put this plan to action and hopefully it shows gains at a good price. Any idea what this set-up will cost?
I just have to wonder if the gains provided by the reduction in skim loss in the 3" section is negated by the extra bends in the 2.5" pipe and the restriction created by the y-pipes.
2013 SHO PP in White Platinum Metallic Tricoat, PPE Downpipes, Livernois Stage V8/3 Bar, Custom 2.5" Catback, 170 T-stat, Airaid CAI, H+R Springs and debadged
Boston Acoustics 2.1 Audio Upgrade

JimiJak

I'll let Spartn27 field any $$ q's, I'm just the guy that made a prototype. Lol

As for increased flow v. restrictions, your guess is as good as mine, but after all of the research, I basically came up with; "well, if it's good enough for a GT-R...it's good enough for my XSport." I realize they're different vehicles, but on paper the engines are actually pretty close to start (numbers anyway).
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

SRT82ECOBOOST

Just a thought here, but what if you replaced the dual 2.5" mid-muffler with a single 3" mid-muffler like the following:
http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=11517
This would allow you to put the Y-pipe right after the downpipe and maximize the length of 3" straight tubing.
2013 SHO PP in White Platinum Metallic Tricoat, PPE Downpipes, Livernois Stage V8/3 Bar, Custom 2.5" Catback, 170 T-stat, Airaid CAI, H+R Springs and debadged
Boston Acoustics 2.1 Audio Upgrade

SRT82ECOBOOST

2013 SHO PP in White Platinum Metallic Tricoat, PPE Downpipes, Livernois Stage V8/3 Bar, Custom 2.5" Catback, 170 T-stat, Airaid CAI, H+R Springs and debadged
Boston Acoustics 2.1 Audio Upgrade