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Testing Air Oil seperators

Started by ShoBoat, April 10, 2014, 10:59:52 PM

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ShoBoat

Hey SwampRat, that link is dead?
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.


SwampRat

2013 SHO  ....  not mine anymore

2021 Edge ST

BiGMaC

Quote from: ShoBoat on April 13, 2014, 11:13:22 AM
Ok so after about 500km I pulled the units off the car, and guess what I found? Nothing! when I mean nothing I mean nothing nada not even dirty. I wiped the units down to see if they had any residue on the inside and it was clean? Now either these are the worst catch cans ever or possibly I haven't given it enough time. But I expected to find something at least a bit of residue. See the attached pics, this has got me wondering. During the Ecoboost torture test, they ran that thing at full boost for pretty much 24 hours right? You would think that that poor engine would be running on oil after just a few miles. Unless they faked it? I am starting to wonder if most of the oil that we are seeing in the throttle body and intake is coming from leaky turbo seals and not the PCV system. According to ford "some oil" is normal coming from the turbo seals. I had cleaned the intake manifold 2 weeks ago and I am not seeing any evidence of oil behind the throttle body where the inlet is from the rear PCV port. But I did see evidence of oil on the TB? I will continue to run the catch cans for another 3 weeks. I think I might pull the tube off my rear turbo and see if there is evidence of oil there. This would be up stream of the "clean side" and would be impossible to get anything from the PCV back there.   

Or one other thing, I am running 1/2 tube and fittings throughout. I wasn't crazy about the reduction in flow for the stock 3/8 fittings that the kit came with. The stock hose and fittings is 1/2.

Thanks ShoBoat!...Progress report on your testing much appreciated.  :thumb:

All comments since your OP acknowledged, as well as your further questions.

Your research may help to narrow down the appropriate choices for a catch can system for us all!  :beer2:

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

ShoBoat

#34
Quote from: SwampRat on April 13, 2014, 12:23:25 PM
Quote from: ShoBoat on April 13, 2014, 11:45:10 AM
Hey SwampRat, that link is dead?


Fixed in earlier post and here ...... http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/

Now that's what i am talking about! That's a ton of data on the SHO. If we could get this kind of data on Catch cans that's where we could all put this to bed. I am defiantly going to get this done on mine.
Great link thanks SwampRat.

Hey the one thing not mentioned in the Torture test on the EB was what maintenance they did on it. I wonder if it included the BG service? Or something similar. Also when looking at the teardown pics did anyone else notice that the TB looked almost brand new? Crap mine has nowhere near as many miles and it doesn't look like that.
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

JimiJak

Thanks ShoBoat! I know we're all chomping at the bit for results to come in. As far as 350 miles being enough to see some results; have we all forgotten about the F-150 video? That was 350 miles and he filled up most of a mason jar! Not saying you should be seeing THAT much or not, but I agree that I expected to find SOMETHING in there...residue at least, regardless of the Moroso's effectiveness.

...very interesting.
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

SwampRat

ShoBoat ......the thanks should be directed towards panther 427 as it was his find .
I was just using the new found info as further proof.

   
Quote from: panther427 on April 13, 2014, 01:28:45 AM
Here you go everyone having sleepless nights over this issue.... BG products...the very company we have talked about,and there wonderful additives and machines have there very own taurus sho. They have been keeping tract of the valves and injectors over 60,000 miles. With excellnt boroscope photos and there take.

http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/
2013 SHO  ....  not mine anymore

2021 Edge ST

SHOdded

Shoboat, is there filter media in the Moroso catchcan setup?  If so, is it possible that the vapors are condensed into the filter media and just haven't made their way into the container yet?  Pressure drop caused by larger tubing affecting the effectiveness?  Just throwing some ideas out there.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Tuner Boost

Sorry I am late to this thread.   You could have saved the time on the Morso test as there are videos and others that have done it already.

Same as the JLT.

Lets start at the Moroso (or Billet Prototypes, Diablosport, and 30 some others branded from the same manufacturer).

If you install a simple air compressor separator....$10-$15 behind it, you will see more passes through that design than it catches, and very simple to see why.

It has only app 1.5 oz's of capacity. This does not allow the flow through (velocity) to slow enough to prevent the Bernoulli effect from carrying droplets through with the flow. It is impossible. (The RX standard can is 12 oz's, Monster is over 22).

One weeks drain from the shop ecoboost f150 is 6-7 ozs's on average:



And side by side w/RX bottom:


  Also look at the design:



Which side is the inlet, and which is the outlet?  The coalescing media will trap oil on the side you use as the inlet, but it will also trap that same oil on the side used as the outlet (try this at home right now and see if I am BSing).

Take a wet wash cloth, put it to your mouth, now suck on it. What happens?  Now, the flow and amount of suction from the PCV system is many times what you can produce with your mouth. Think about this.

Now, watch this video. This is on a Caddy CTSv with a ring/blow-by issue. Now a PD blower has least suction at idle, and greatest at top RPM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9klkDCItEY

See app 1/2 way how the oil is dripping down the right side at low rpms, and at high rpms it is pulled across from right to left and up and out the left side.  That shows the Bernoulli effect over powering any possible chance for this to retain most of the oil and other compounds a proper separator will.

Now on to JLT (and ALL of these are first class quality in machining, appearance, etc, but no one considered all the pricniplas and functions needed to design an effective can. They all catch oil, even a beer can with 2 fittings will trap nearly as much as the Moroso if you test, you will see.

So, watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H257bOs3gn8

This is an excellent way to test, but they are using a GT 500 Mustang, again, a PD blower similar to the caddy CTS-V. But they never go above idle, so suction is at its lowest. We duplicated this test and as soon as you rev up on the dyno even with almost no oil already trapped, a good amount pulled right through.

Go back and watch it again. Now we tried this with a NA car that has suction at the highest at idle (same as a Turbo would) and it starts to show oil pull through as soon as you start to introduce the oil.  You dont have to take my word for it, try this yourself. It does not involve much cost, just a little time.

No one has put more time and research into these designs than we have, period.

Look at how the RX can is designed:


We take and purchase and test every can on the market we see, then dissect and determine why some do well, and others do poorly.

Here are how they rank. Any not listed allowed far to much pull through to be considered effective:

RX
Saiku Micchi (SMC)
Elite Engineering's E2
Apex.

And thats it.

We have the same car we know the amount of blow by and what it produces. We run every can with the RX can behind it so we can measure the primary can and then what the RX caught behind it AFTER it did its best. The RX can will catch nearly as much, or more than almost every can out there AFTER the vapors have already passed the primary can, EXCEPT those listed above as they are also excellent cans we have tested and seen first hand.  Now we also do the test in reverse, and the RX catches all, or nearly all the compounds letting none through (unless an excessive blow-by engine then trace amounts do make it past). We have had this challenge out there for years, and all those that have done it independently have seen the same results (most never tell the results afterwards though) and have never been embarrassed (imagine how it would look) by the results.

Want more proof?

Every other can listed is a direct competitor. most very unfriendly to us even though we post they are the best.

Contact Elite Engineering, and ask their opinion of RX's Tracy's engineering knowledge and qualifications on this subject (they are a direct competitor)
http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/elite-engineering-catch-can/

We have done the testing. The Elite is app the same price as the ones that dont function well, and is just about as effective as the RX (the E2 version).

So, try this, email or call Elite direct (the other wont talk about it, or are negative and dismiss the testing) and see what they say.

I can build a race trans good, but I am far from the best, so I defer to the experts I respect. I can tune well, but am far from an expert so I defer to those I do respect as the best.  I can build and set up rear diff gears as good as most, but I am far from the best. I have been installing and using Methanol inject systems for ages and know as much as most, but I am far from the best....I consider Julio from Alky Control the best...he has forgotten more than I know. I only claim engine building , forced induction designs, and crankcase evacuation as areas I am considered among the most knowledgeable. And only am above average in engine building so that leaves only 2 areas I am considered, and consider myself one of the authorities in that area.

Hope this helps....and please watch the videos and consider all I am sharing.  And those still skeptics, Contact Elite's CEO Steve and ask his opinion. For any others, I know I can't please or convince all, so as this is a free country, use whatever solution you are comfortable with. That is the main thing. Your peace of mind.

Cheers!!





Tuner Boost

Oh, one other thing. Only the RX system corrects the PCV systems evacuation issue, adding another can  only dealing with the vapors after they have accumulated in the crankcase already and contaminated the oil.

Some of the other cans can be modified to do the same, but you will need the checkvalves, fittings, lines, etc. to accomplish this.

The RX system is complete with all needed.

To compare, you would want to use the RX single valve can for $199 if you dont want to correct the PCV system flaw.


Night Hawk

Quote from: 68_GT on April 11, 2014, 11:30:34 AM
I wonder who has the highest mileage SHO on here and any input about this thay may have ? I know when I changed out my 3bar MAP on the upper intake it had a tad bit of oil dripping from the one I removed. I hate to spend the money on something unecessary, but I sure don't want my engine gunked up either. I plan to keep mine for a long time.

104k here, been using home depot/lowes compressor inline filters with no problems and no oil in the throttle body yet
2017 Fusion Sport
GFB DivValve/165* Thermo
K&N Panel/CFM Breather
Ult Perf Int Garrett Core/MKZ oil cooler
FMS 70mm TB/ NGK .026/LMS V6 93

Night Hawk


  here is my setup w approx 4k after an oil change approx 104k on car 75+dragstrip runs
2017 Fusion Sport
GFB DivValve/165* Thermo
K&N Panel/CFM Breather
Ult Perf Int Garrett Core/MKZ oil cooler
FMS 70mm TB/ NGK .026/LMS V6 93

glock-coma

Thanks  for sharing, that engine bay does not look like it has 104k on it. Looks like those inline filters actually do some good.
Good job keeping it clean !!!

2010 RCM non PP
K&N panel filter
sp534 @ 30
unleashed 93 performance+firm shift+boost
more to come.....

2010 red candy metallic non PP 402B
AJPTURBO 2 BAR Tune Stock 14.1@100.3 / Tuned 12.83@107.7
K&N panel, RX OCC, Sp-534 @.30 Tint 50%F-35%R BOV bypass
1997 SHO silver frost (sold)
1990 SHO triple black 5-speed (saved my life)

ShoBoat


Quote from: Night Hawk on April 13, 2014, 07:34:19 PM

  here is my setup w approx 4k after an oil change approx 104k on car 75+dragstrip runs
Damn that is clean! I like the inline filters too, clean install! Thanks for sharing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

Tuner Boost

Those are what you use to put behind any filter to test for flow through.  They are not an effective solution, but better than nothing for sure.

But again, this is after the ingestion/accumulation occurs.  A true solution must first correct the flow issue of the OEM PCV system.

Nice install.