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Rev Xtreme after market Throttle Body

Started by SwampRat, March 25, 2014, 02:59:13 PM

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BiGMaC

Quote from: thatsmrgimp2u on March 25, 2014, 10:30:10 PM
In all seriousness, with the stock intake setup and restrictive intercooler, I'd bet its less than 5hp. Increasing plenum volume has minimal impact on turbo vehicles. I can see potential in the bigger throttle body, but only after the other bottlenecks are remedied.

....and some ATP turbos push the extra air through that bigger space....

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•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

HotRodLinc

Quote from: SwampRat on March 25, 2014, 02:59:13 PM
Aftermarket throttle bodies are a popular upgrade among many performance enthusiasts .

First SHO had his modified .... Not sure how .

BBK makes one for the 3.5 EB in the F150 and claim an additional 15 to 20 HP .

I think I saw in a post that Tuner Boost was developing one for the 3.5 EB but I'm can't find the post .

Any one have any experience with this on any other engine ?

I am curious to any other benefits that could be gained .

I had one installed on my 2003 Cobra Terminator supercharged 4 valve 4.6 and it improved seat of the pants throttle response but not much more. I loved the sound and the feel but don't expect much more. 

EcoPowerParts

On the caddies we pick up 20-35 HP from 4.5" intake and 102mm tB (mine is sitting in the garage waiting for more ports) but the V is supercharged and it's the inlet to the supercharger we're increasing airflow to. I don't know if these will make a gain or not but would love to test the premise.
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Tuner Boost

We still need an EB F150 in FL to do the dyno testing on the EB version.

Here is on the CTS-V (not touching the housing or snout of the SC) just bolting on w/out tuning:


I also wanted to share the technology behind the RX?VMax CNC pattern ported TB's.  The diameter alone is not all that affects flow and velocity, but the manipulation of the surface barrier.  Most all TB's OEM or aftermarket (and Mike will have results on the CTS'V to show)


Below is a video of the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDbVy4Hum1c

Many may remember the Myth Busters MPG test using the "dimple effect" of reducing surface friction?  Same has been used in everything from golf balls to stealth jets.

Since the smoother, and shiner a surface is, the more area for airflow to create friction, which disrupts the efficiency and reduces velocity (as critical to power as CFM of flow, if not more).  In the 70's and 80's we used to spend hours polishing all out porting work to a mirror finish under the assumption the smoother, the better. It was not until wet flow benches and CNC porting that we discovered how wrong we were. In fact by accident NHRA teams in the 80's that had swapped on heads w/out polishing...just the rough surface from porting, ran quicker than ever before and the dyno testing later affirmed how polishing actually hurt power due to the vortices created from this surface drag.



Now we go a bit further as most throttle bodies are not a even straight through bore, but have dips and peaks, etc. so we have to analyze how these affect the flow, and then manipulate it by varying the aggressiveness, shape, and amount of texture so the end result is greatly improved efficiency of the flow, and CFM flow #'s and velocity are increased so in some cases the gains will be greater than a larger diameter TB in comparison. 

Hope this helps!

SHOdded

So you are saying that while the actual surface area is increased, the available surface area for air to interact with (cause friction) is significantly decreased?  Is it just dimpling that is effective, or is there a pattern (say, a spiral) that needs to be incorporated also?
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Tuner Boost

Correct. What the pattern does is break up the friction layer so the majority of the air passing is undisturbed. When wet flow high speed video is replayed in slo-mo it shows on a smooth surface there is quite a bit of disturbance from vortices created from the air next to the surface dragged slower, and this has a negative effect on the CFM of flow as well as the velocity (speed) as it is a bit "jumbled up".  When the same video is done with the textured surface it acts like tiny ball bearings breaking the drag, or resistance so only a tiny outer portion shows disruption....the vast majority is intact and undisturbed.  Think a sharks skin.  Natyres most perfect friction proof surface feels like sand paper, and here is what it looks like magnified:



Or the stepped hulls of race boats do similar.

Now if you go to aggressive in depth and design, you loose any of the gains from the texture, so it is quite the science.

Now on the throttle bodies, we vary the shape, aggressiveness, depth depending on if the throat section needs to be slowed, blended, or left alone (as where there are deep dips and peaks as this can have a negative effect on tip-in).  The goal is much crisper quicker throttle response and power throughout the band.

The least effective end result is the LLT GM DI V6, and the best is the Corvettes with straight air intakes (those with a 90* bend like the V and Camaros, etc. are a bit less than the same engine in the C5 & C6 corvette where the intake bridge is straight).

But all have some pretty remarkable throttle response improvements, and the hesitation many V6 DI engine experience between 1000-2000 RPM disappears as well.


Mike has a RX TB for his V, see how it responds.


SHOdded

Does this mean the TB has to be matched to the intake?  For example, stock vs Airaid vs K&N vs ...  I don't think we really know the airflow mapping data on any of these (not publicly available) at a level to be useful to TB machining/calibration.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

J-Will

I have a stock '14 SHO (K&N drop in, but could go back to stock filter) and would be willing to test.  I will take it to a dyno for pulls at stock, perform the swap, and conduct pulls with the new TB.  This would be a good way for a baseline on stock tune, check for codes, etc.
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SP-542 plugs w/ GH gap

Tuner Boost

No need to port match unless transitioning from larger to smaller id.

We are finishing the F-150 version right now and then will start on the SHO version.

Here is a good video to show the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPk92Q3Bzmc#t=85

FoMoCoSHO

I think Tracy's write up helps explain why the k&n performs so poorly.
The triple whammy...
1. Heat soak from the metal pipe and open cone.
2. Removal of the OEM bellows which is a cheap yet effective way to straighten and accelerate the air after the turbulent filter.
3. Smooth pipe which actually slows down airflow even further.

It makes sense now why I have always felt that throttle response suffers when it is on the car.

Tuner Boost

Heat soak is a horrible enemy to power and response.  On the NA GM 3.6 DI V6 we see 20 rwhp, 25 rwtq plus reducing the intake manifold temp by app 40* F.

SHOdded

2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

panther427

What about doing this on the turbos :).
2013 SHO

SHOdded

Quote from: panther427 on July 16, 2014, 02:24:25 PM
What about doing this on the turbos :).
As in the walls of the turbos, or the blades?  Could work.  I wonder why they don't use this on airplanes though.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Tuner Boost

Myth Busters episode I almost went crazy when I saw it first...I was like I know this will work, we do this all the time.

On Military aircraft many of the newer designs do use a textured surface for this and stealth. Have not seen it on commercial or private aircraft yet, but NASCAR forbid teams using a textured "wrap" a few years ago as in testing they were going faster and using less fuel.

Anyway,

Here are the first results:

Did this on a bone stock F150 EB today. No tune, stock exhaust and airbox, everything as it comes.

Keep in mind this is only the prototype...the finished product with the textured pattern should add another 2 plus HP/TQ.




The off idle response improved a bit in driving test, but not as much as when the final pattern is machined in. Gains are pretty dang decent with no tune, but a good custom tune will optimize the added airflow and velocity so better yet!

Looking at app 4 weeks to release of the final version, and 2 weeks for final dyno results on the same truck.

Car version to follow.

Price is $150 plus a refundable core charge of $200 and $15 S&H. First come, first serve can pre-pay now to be on the list.

First 30 days this is an exclusive through EcoPowerParts,

Cheers!!!