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Ecoboost PCV issues

Started by Tuner Boost, February 23, 2014, 05:25:16 PM

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panther427

And personally i like to change the oil 50-100 miles after doing any upper cylinder treatment. And the bg stuff is great.
2013 SHO

Tuner Boost

Quote from: panther427 on February 24, 2014, 05:07:08 PM
And personally i like to change the oil 50-100 miles after doing any upper cylinder treatment. And the bg stuff is great.

Good point I forgot.   This is a critical part most don't do. Excellent post.

Tomc612

I run a JLT PERFORMACE  oil separator in the rear pcv and using a smaller one from Steeda in the front and works great..I recommend the new updated mesh screen filters from JLT too.The filter from the the steeda units I find are  restrictive and breaks down fast. The new Jlt filter fit perfect in the steeda unit. I don't get hardly any oil mist in the front.. but the rear pcv I get just about 1 tablespoon at 4000 miles..









http://jlttruecoldair.com/ZenCart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=357_359&products_id=635&zenid=bf65413fd3ae000afad590a1e73a483e




Tuner Boost

The reason you are catching more on the cleanside, is the lack of proper flow in the ecoboost. It has marginal flow at non boost, and no evac during boost so you have excess crankcase pressure pushing the vapors out the cleanside.

Also, I have a test for you....install the RX can, or SMC/Elite E2, or Apex can after the JLT and watch them all catch as much or more than the JLT does first in line. The reasons are #1, the capacity of the JLT is app 1.5 oz's VS 8-16 of the others, so that small internal volume never lets the flow slow enough to avoid pull-through (unless on a supercharged vacuum port at idle when the CFM of flow is minimal). and 2, there has to be a clear separation of the incoming oil laden vapors from the separated vapors and that takes a series of totally separate chambers and processes. But even with a more robust baffle system, you will find all of the cans smaller than 12 plus ounces, there will always be pull through.

The JLT is first rate in quality and precision/appearance, but in the real world doing this simple test shows it, as most, will only catch a portion of the oil/water present.

Take a look at what is caught in a short time in the RX can, that is 3-4 times the entire capacity of any of the small cans:

RX Dual Check Valve Catch Can and 2013 Ecoboost F150

So my intent is not to offend as this is a very common misconception on most cans....a user will see it catches some oil, and assumes it does a complete job. There is far more to it than that as even a beer can with 2 fittings will catch as much as 99% of the cans marketed...and this does not mean the designer/manufacturer has intended to in anyway deceive or mislead (some do), it just means the amount of information and data needed to create a truly effective design is far more involved as this is the most misunderstood system on cars and light trucks today, so most that offer a can have put all they know into it, but without understanding all the flow dynamics, Bernoulli effect, Coalescing and condensing principals, etc. they are all made upon assumptions instead of the science needed.

So try the test I describe (will cost app $8-$10) and see for yourself. The few that do a good job are all direct competitors of ours and we would certainly do better in sales to not acknowledge those that have tested and shown to be so effective, but then we would be no different than the rest that claim they are the best and nothing else should be considered.


Tuner Boost

Oh, and one last very important point, everything JLT makes/offers is top quality. It is just the points made above that make this not the best choice.


Tuner Boost


Courier6

Quote from: Tuner Boost on February 25, 2014, 12:42:57 PM
Here is a link to photos of catchcan testing:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198401

This thread treats the issue as a mostly "extreme cold weather" problem, true or not?
2013 Tri-White PP, PPE downpipes, Corsa, Air Raid CAI, H&R Springs, 170 deg thermo, Livernois Dyno Tune 365 AWHP 407 AWTQ. Best 1/4 mile 12.580

BiGMaC

Tracey... Thank you for devoting so much time to explain the details of catch cans and various designs.  I have learned a lot that I didn't know.  Great work!  I will definitely want one when fitment is completed.  Please keep us advised.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

panther427

Quote from: Courier6 on February 25, 2014, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: Tuner Boost on February 25, 2014, 12:42:57 PM
Here is a link to photos of catchcan testing:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198401

This thread treats the issue as a mostly "extreme cold weather" problem, true or not?

From my understanding the problem is worse in weather.. the cars in that tread all seemed to be still natrually asperated. With the turbo we have a larger problem.
2013 SHO

Tuner Boost

Sat is fast approaching so we will post the step by step pictures and have the system finalized then.

The issue is far worse in the cold temps below 45* F, but even here in Florida, the ecoboost is the worst as far as water and unburnt fuel accumulating in the crankcase and oil due to the design as it only evacuates at idle and low rpms/throttle position. As soon as there is any boost detected the IM vac is shut from the integrated checkvalve in the pass side cam cover so there is no removal of the mix. That is why the RX system uses the inlet side of the turbos for evacuation during boost.

Most PCV systems do just fine, but this is a turbo application and that is where the issues come in with the poor design, and GM is no better with their turbo doing evac during boost only and none at non-boost. All of the water/gunk in the intercooler, the rough running during acceleration, the rapid engine wear from diluted oil (if you see your oil level rise it is from unburnt fuel and water and acid present) is all caused by the PCV system doing such a poor job of evacuating.



Tuner Boost

Another good read from a scientific point of view with flow formulas, etc.

http://www.106rallye.co.uk/members/dynofiend/breathersystems.pdf

SwampRat

Quote from: Tuner Boost on February 27, 2014, 03:12:06 PM
Sat is fast approaching so we will post the step by step pictures and have the system finalized then.

The issue is far worse in the cold temps below 45* F, but even here in Florida, the ecoboost is the worst as far as water and unburnt fuel accumulating in the crankcase and oil due to the design as it only evacuates at idle and low rpms/throttle position. As soon as there is any boost detected the IM vac is shut from the integrated checkvalve in the pass side cam cover so there is no removal of the mix. That is why the RX system uses the inlet side of the turbos for evacuation during boost.

Most PCV systems do just fine, but this is a turbo application and that is where the issues come in with the poor design, and GM is no better with their turbo doing evac during boost only and none at non-boost. All of the water/gunk in the intercooler, the rough running during acceleration, the rapid engine wear from diluted oil (if you see your oil level rise it is from unburnt fuel and water and acid present) is all caused by the PCV system doing such a poor job of evacuating.
I am anxiously awaiting for you to get this to market . When this happens hopefully you will use 4Dr as an etailer  option .
2013 SHO  ....  not mine anymore

2021 Edge ST

JimiJak

Great write up Tracy! Really appreciate all the information. Can't wait for the Explorer kit to get released. THANKS
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

BiGMaC

JimiJak... check out this thread from last Saturday's RX catch can on your platform.

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2187.msg31056#msg31056

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

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