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Dyno for PPE down pipes

Started by EcoPowerParts, February 12, 2014, 05:53:00 PM

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EcoPowerParts

Tom took his car down to PPE to get catless and catted pipes dynod. Power is calculated at the crank for this dyno session
Car is a stock 13 non PP SHO without a tune
First up is stock vs catless
Picked good power down low due to quicker spool and power up top before the throttle closed.



Here's the dyno comparing catted vs catless pipes.



What we noticed is that the car is limiting the power, this is a stock tune and it's doing torque limiting to maintain power across the power band. We didn't data log the boost which would have proved this out.
Tom is going to allow us to retest with a tune comparing stock downpipes vs catted pipes.
Mike B | info@ecopowerparts.com
www.ecopowerparts.com -
please use my website for any price quotes and to submit any orders.
Please email me via info@ecopowerparts.com if you have any questions on new or existing orders, PM's via the forum are hard to track your purchase as I can't relate user name to actual name.
https://www.facebook.com/ecopowerparts

BlueSHO

Calculated at the crank? Why no wheel HP?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

2016 SHO Blue Jeans
2001 Lightning
1996 Mystic Cobra

black99lightning

mine should be here tomorrow.  Got a tax appt tomorrow night, so try and put them on friday.  Going to the track Saturday.  Previous best is 13.12.  Hope to get into the 12's.
2013 Esport 13.44 @ 103.6
1999 Lightning 12.44 @ 108.4
2012 GT500 10.96 @ 130.6
2006 GTO 12.83 @ 107.8
2013 CTSV coupe 11.79 @ 119.7

Josephm

Looks really good but Why is that his TQ numbers stayed the same?
12' Flex EB
Unleashed X4
3rd Cat delete

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: Josephm on February 12, 2014, 09:32:49 PM
Looks really good but Why is that his TQ numbers stayed the same?

While TQ numbers didn't increase much, it does build and peak faster.

QuickSilver

Today is my second day driving with my new DP's, they are using the stock modified cats(I tried to use larger cats but found out there is no room to go bigger :( ), I'd have to say to me it feels like the same result as the dyno graph, response/spool is much better, in the middle RPM range they are so so but up top it just keeps pulling now 8) Mine were added to an existing custom 2.5" dual exhaust so I'm wondering if the only potential corks are the cats themselves or the inlets into them.
AJ

2014 Ingot Silver Explorer Sport- LMS V3 Tune, AirRaid CAI, Hi_flow Catted DP's to Complete dual 2.5" exhaust, 19"X 9.5"TSW Panorama Rotary Forged/powdercoated Rims, Cree LED Foglights, Hoping for those Megan coilovers to be developed...

Josephm

I am guessing the TQ is limited electronically
12' Flex EB
Unleashed X4
3rd Cat delete

EcoPowerParts

What we noticed is that the car is limiting the power, this is a stock tune and it's doing torque limiting to maintain power across the power band. We didn't data log the boost or throttle opening which would have proved this out.
Tom is going to allow us to retest with a tune comparing stock downpipes vs catted pipes.
So can you make more power with upgraded exhaust and downpipes on a stock tune? My answer is very little as the ECU will limit you massively, the good and bad of being closed loop all the time.
Mike B | info@ecopowerparts.com
www.ecopowerparts.com -
please use my website for any price quotes and to submit any orders.
Please email me via info@ecopowerparts.com if you have any questions on new or existing orders, PM's via the forum are hard to track your purchase as I can't relate user name to actual name.
https://www.facebook.com/ecopowerparts

shoman04

2011 KONA BLU SHO,Livernois Tune,AIRAID CAI,DYNOMAX MUFFLEs,Newest member of the 12sec CLUB 12.669sec @ 107mph    2011 Ford Taurus SHO: 12.669 @ 105.050 MPH NEW FOR 2013LMS down-pipe,Magnaflow X-pipe,and Custom 2.5"exhaust pipe!! Meth and stage 5 next to be install!!!!!! METH DYNO TUNE today 405AWHP!!!WOW LMS track day 12.4209sec   :mike1:

EcoPowerParts

Quote from: shoman04 on February 13, 2014, 01:12:31 AM
Ha 4DRHTRD. Is the cut-out exhaust dump ready for sale and how much? http://shop.ecoboostpowerparts.com/Ford-Flex-SHO-Explorer-Sport-MKS-MKT_c2.htm
Paul has it at his shop, just waiting for it to be replicated.
Mike B | info@ecopowerparts.com
www.ecopowerparts.com -
please use my website for any price quotes and to submit any orders.
Please email me via info@ecopowerparts.com if you have any questions on new or existing orders, PM's via the forum are hard to track your purchase as I can't relate user name to actual name.
https://www.facebook.com/ecopowerparts

shoman04

Quote from: 4DRHTRD on February 13, 2014, 08:32:22 AM
Quote from: shoman04 on February 13, 2014, 01:12:31 AM
Ha 4DRHTRD. Is the cut-out exhaust dump ready for sale and how much? http://shop.ecoboostpowerparts.com/Ford-Flex-SHO-Explorer-Sport-MKS-MKT_c2.htm
Paul has it at his shop, just waiting for it to be replicated.
every good I may get one depend on the price.
2011 KONA BLU SHO,Livernois Tune,AIRAID CAI,DYNOMAX MUFFLEs,Newest member of the 12sec CLUB 12.669sec @ 107mph    2011 Ford Taurus SHO: 12.669 @ 105.050 MPH NEW FOR 2013LMS down-pipe,Magnaflow X-pipe,and Custom 2.5"exhaust pipe!! Meth and stage 5 next to be install!!!!!! METH DYNO TUNE today 405AWHP!!!WOW LMS track day 12.4209sec   :mike1:

BiGMaC

#11
Mike pretty much summarized it.  With less restricti cutbacks and tune the increase should be better since the car ECU won't limit performance then.  I definitely will
Be doing that and the cutout.  Tune is next.  Then Dyno, then cutout, then redyno.

The coating is awesome in appearance, and my hardpipes will
be coated for that reason, but currently I cannot recommend the extra $175 for performance improvement as gains at this time seem not to be worth it (minimal).  Clearly the DPs are worth the plunge.

I'll get some pics up later... Buried at work right now!

BTW, Mile's V cannot be fully appreciated in pics and it's performance is out-of-control awesome.  He graciously gave me a ride during the cooling waits while dynoing.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

SHOdded

Any numbers on differences in exhaust gas temps and/or external temps (of the downpipes themselves)?
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

BiGMaC

Quote from: SHOdded on February 13, 2014, 03:07:06 PM
Any numbers on differences in exhaust gas temps and/or external temps (of the downpipes themselves)?

I don't have objective measurements (thermometer).  The ambient temp was 74-79 degrees and humidity at 18-19%.  Touching them, and confirmed with Paul at PPE, after running for 15-20 min (street and highway) between BMR and PPE.. the PPE DPs (all are stainless) cool off MUCH faster than stock and the thermal coated DPs (which not only has "insulating" value but also helps with heat dissipation) cooled the fastest.

Again... it's subjective based on when each of us could grab the pipe without pain or need to let go.  Best i can do right now.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

BiGMaC

#14
Sorry to be so slow to get this up.. some of the pics will be old hat to those who have had their SHO up on a lift. I apologize for the dirty car... 4 days of sitting outside parked often on an unpaved road and the drive to Tucson.. Anyway...

We all spent 10am - about 6PM doing this.

First, All thanks to Mike (4DR) both personally as well as Ecoboost Power Parts... the DPs are his brainchild, to Jeremy and the crew at Black Market Racing for running the equipment and putting up with me through 9 dyno pulls and data analysis, and to Paul and the crew at PPE for making the DPs a reality and doing 3 installs (including my DPs) on my car as well as some development work. Left click the pics to enlarge


Remember the SHO had no tune or performance mod except the downpipes. example dynos were posted by Mike earlier in this thread... we lost one data set... the best catted and coated pull. We dyno'd hood up and hood down.


Bottom lines after Mike, Jeremy, and I filtered all the dynos several ways is below:[/b]
-All the pipes resulted in an earlier and stronger HP and torque increases and it started up way faster... likely due to earlier spooling of turbos.  See the dynos 4DR put up earlier
-The thermal coating itself did not demonstrate any significant performance gain.  I cannot recommend it at $175 based on our data unless you just like the look... It is sexy!... My hotpipes are ordered coated because of aesthetics, and perhaps a minimum gain with heat control.
-non-catted gains were about 16-17HP with similar increases in torque and catted thermal coated pipes coated were the least gain at 11-12 hp on the best pull (this data lost... sorry, We were all three standing there and saw it) and similar torque gains. (catted were done last and the effects of heat saturation were evident in the minimal gains in the last 2 pulls of the 9 total.... and driving back and forth between BMR and PPE several times.
-The car idles noticeably slower, about 600rpm now, likely due to the early power onset and Ford's torque based ECM algorithms for the 3.5EB
-See my earlier post for heat data as best we had it.
-We all believe that on the dyno the ECM limits use of all the available increased power... The idle speed could be an example. A tune...better yet with specific mods for the DPs should overcome this.
-Subjectively...The car definitely accelerates quicker and crudely has an improved 0-60... WOT launch on dry pavement snaps me back before the steady pull and the traction control is working hard to keep it straight. 60-100 continues strong pull.  I was on streets and didn't go farther.  The dynos indicate a steady pull and increase through about 6800-7000rpm.  It's certainly more fun!
-Sound at idle is deeper but not much louder, cruise at any speed below 100 is plain quiet, there is never a drone, and when you ask for quick acceleration the exhaust is a bit louder than stock, but definitely has more authority.
- So after I tune we'll pull some more to confirm our thoughts on needing a tune to get the largest benefits (by preventing the ECU from limiting use of available power) and how much those are.  Indictions are that we will see a synergistic rather than just additive effect

Enough of my BS and on to the pics.  Left click to enlarge. Labels are above pics.

Here' the stock pipes.  Nasty looking...narrow tubing, unnecessary bends and compressions (it has a flat side), and a long flex tube.  Pay attention to the rear hanger's vertical position.


When you get then off it looks like this.. oil filter is front side and you can just see the turbo manifold flanges...harder on the rear. You'll need some long extensions and wigglers to get these bolts out... we also used a breaker bar and a lot of penetrating oil. Re-bolt with anti-seize compound!!! Three total sensors..two on the front (long) pipe and one on the rear (short) pipe.


Here's the stainless DPs for comparison (rear non-catted and front (long) catted... Much improved... bigger, straighter, and with shorter flextube. Note the O2 sensor hole at the top of the front pipe...for stock pipe removal I recommend removing it from below to minimze chance of damage, but it must be disconnected from above first in any event. It can be brought out on the pipe CAREFULLY and removed on the bench... but space is tight Houdini!  Get a sensor wrench socket if you don't have one to prevent cussing and buying stock in bandaids.


Here's the stainless pipes installed (without sensors)


Here's my stainless ceramic coated babies! On the install pics notice the hangers again... vertical no significant spread... there may be a few millimeters spread due to keeping the bigger tubes from contacting each other or the driver's side posterior motor mount (which allows the engine to rock front to back on two pivots).  I recommend final tightening with a screw driver held between the posterior ends of the pipes just forward of the flex-tube to prevent the above mentioned contact.  Minimal hangar spread is safe due to the direction of the pins for the rubber hangar...see the pics
Ain't they purdy!



I recommend all the folks involved in this endeavor... the PPE downpipes are definitely a worthwhile mod... I can hardly wait for my cutout and Corsa catbacks. Paul has the cutout now and I got to take a look... Great job developing it Mike!...but we'll dyno with a tune and just the downpipes first.

Again the REAL thanks goes to Mike(4DR) & Ecoboost Power Parts, to Jeremy & Black Market Racing, and to Paul & PPE without whom none of this would have happened!

Thanks for taking a look.... hope this helps a few folks.  I certainly learned a lot!


•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock