what to do with my 3bar MAP ?

[68_GT]

OK so I bought it and now seems useless since I'll probably never run meth and LMS scrapped the Xv1.

any reason to ever consider putting it in ? any better tuning benefits to putting it in and having LMS change my tune for it or anything ??

[Boggus]

Get an unleashed tune from Torrie and use the 3bar

[bpd1151]

It's primary purpose is strictly to allow boost beyond 14.2 psi.

If you're not tuned to push your turbos beyond that, regardless of who you tune with, it's sadly enough, fairly useless.



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[Josephm]

Get an unleashed tune from Torrie and use the 3bar

I second this option.

[BiGMaC]

Get an unleashed tune from Torrie and use the 3bar

I second this option.

Another thought is to have your current tune adjusted for the sensor and increased boost or just to sell it... In the parts for sale area. Even at a loss on a sale either of these is more cost effective than a new tuner and/or tune

[BigPelo]

Get an unleashed tune from Torrie and use the 3bar

+1

That's what I did, tired waiting for LMS XV1 tune.

[BiGMaC]

No dis meant to Torrie or unleashed... I'm just thinkin' out loud about your dilemma and the most practical cost effective solution.

You've already got an LMS tune, so they will likely adjust it for free.  I notice you're running stage 3 from your signature and you state you don't plan meth, so I assume your not trying for 600 WHP.

These "stages" are no longer offered by LMS and likely are better thought of as "versions" that occurred during continued development of the current tune. bpd is spot on, the 3bar's use is allowing/getting the most from high boost. Most with experience in stock turbos will tell you that 16-17psi boost is about the most you can expect from OEM turbos.
Dan (the tuner) at LMS does adjust tunes for increased boost and the 3bar is then of use.  I do know that DJE624 has a LMS 4+ tune (equivalent of the LMS tune now offered) that allows his boost to go 15+.
 
So you likely could use the 3bar to increase performance significantly without spending any more money.

[mjlkwolfe@gmail.com]

Question All
A 3 bar map sensor is capable of measuring pressures up to 45psi
Why would anyone need it for applications below 20 psi
Is the stock sensor a 2 bar unit?
If so it is good for 30psi?
If the stock unit is a 1 bar unit then 15 psi would be max measurable pressure.
Who out there has the true specs on these parts & others like the injectors, HP pumps etc.
Would sure like to know
Then it would be easy to calculate max boost pressures, hp available with stock parts etc

[BigPelo]

MAP stand for manifold absolute pressure. So at 3 bar, You can go up to 29.4 psi approx. Because of atmospheric pressure of 1 bar need to be add. Else it would be called a manifold relative pressure and you would be correct for the 3 bar being ~45 psi.

[crash712us]

Good questions, but as to MAP sensor they must be including atmospheric pressure in the labeling of these sensors. So my assumption is a 1bar sensor is only capable of reading atmospheric pressure, a 2bar sensor is capable of reading 2 atmosphere of pressure and so on.

[BiGMaC]

Question All
A 3 bar map sensor is capable of measuring pressures up to 45psi
Why would anyone need it for applications below 20 psi
Is the stock sensor a 2 bar unit?
If so it is good for 30psi?
If the stock unit is a 1 bar unit then 15 psi would be max measurable pressure.
Who out there has the true specs on these parts & others like the injectors, HP pumps etc.
Would sure like to know
Then it would be easy to calculate max boost pressures, hp available with stock parts etc

Best I can answer.. in order:

•3bar allows finer tuning and let's the ECU deal with high boost pressures optimally.  The pressures quoted are correct as I understand it, but it's a matter of the input to the ECU and how it deals with the different inputs.

•Why? ...Don't know... a FORD secret of ECU programming known to the qualified tuners.

•The OEM MAP on the SHO is a 2bar sensor.  Tuners can modify the programming to take advantage of the control and higher than OEM boost.

*30 psi?... your stock turbos can't produce more than about 17psi OEM and in stock tune probably never get above 12-14 depending. I doubt if the ATP larger ones get too much more, performance seems to be due to more air at slightly higher pressures... never seen it reported by the dedicated data loggers on the sight so I'm ignorant.  Hopefully a few of them will chime in.  I'd like to here crash's opinion.

•True specs are available from the manufacturer of the OEM turbos... I know it's somewhere here... I once studied it and just can't remember the manufacturer (sorry).. I was just checking for safety parameters... I do remember that they should be fine tuned for increased boost and 4DR has improved impellers available to rebuild them and increase performance.  I hope he'll set us straight on the performance of these.

• Good point on predicting gains!  Useful.  Still there's a lot of real world variables per vehicle and weather at any given time.  My SHO, and most i've discussed it with, get a stock dyno about 285-295 WHP. Tuning seems to add 40-70WHP to a stock 3.5 EB (only changes being 1 heat range cooler plugs and T-stat).

My 2 cents.. Hope you can find the info.  An engineer's viewpoint would be super!

[Needmoreboost]

Does LMS do customing tuning as part of their package? 

[BiGMaC]

Both Brandon and Dan say yes... as a lifetime customer... Starts when you tell them what mods you've made at the time you first order.  DJE624 can give you more info... I know he has a heavily modified 4+ tune.

[bpd1151]

ATP +2 upgrades are capable of efficiently running at 30psi

Check their site for more tech info.

Stock turbos can go to around 19psi, as both Darreli & FirstSHO did so, prior to upgrading their turbos.

I still don't think the stock internals, or more so the tranny, can handle the ATP's in their true potential.

I believe even 4DR "only" went to around 25psi on his ATP's.

Meh..... back to topic.

Stock MAP is a 2bar. Max psi with it, in the EB platform is 14.2 from what I was told.

In closing, welcome aboard Wolfe!

You'd be pleasantly surprised at how many "vintage" members we have here.

Take a moment to create an intro thread when time permits.

The "other" Mike

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[crash712us]

It's not factory turbo can't produce 30psi, it's being able to do it efficiently. 30psi of super hot air won't give you any performance. However my race tune on my stock turbo's does have brief peaks up to 22psi but mostly sustained pressures of 15-17psi. But it's not all about psi it's about volume of air cfms. You can go buy a cheap 5hp 60 gal air compressor at home depot, and it will do much of want the average guy needs. And they market by  HP and psi not by cfm's and how many cfm's it can sustain at @ 90psi. What would help most of us understanding the differences between our turbos and the 2 options available is seeing the maps of each and the amounts air they move and pressures seen at certain impeller rpms. You see are turbos at 30psi are turning 250k while another modified turbo at 30psi is turning 175k. Just so hypothetical examples I am not certain of actual rpms although I believe I've read at factory levels are turbo are turning 200k