The self-tuning thread

[metroplex]

FWIW I used nothing but the cheapest dino 5W-30 that met the Ford specification, cheapest Fram oil filter, and the least expensive 87 octane in the SHO for the past 3 years. I did run 93 octane several times to gather data to see what effect it had on knock retard, and here is what I found (see attached). Basically it helped reduce it but there's still knock retard. The SHO just seems to come from the factory with more timing advance at the high boost region than the other EcoBoost engines/vehicles. Looking at vehicles like the Focus RS and the F-150 3.5L, they're running about more retarded timing in the same regions.

I'm open to solid ideas about reducing knock retard. Again, I haven't touched the spark tables at all.

[FoMoCoSHO]

The tune looks to have a bit more KR than stock and is retarded 11.5 degrees compared to stock.

Everything being equal that 11.5 degrees is around -50 HP.

So it appears that as you are adding boost, it is taking timing.

I'm running similar boost with a bunch more timing with zero KR. (20% E with Nitro 93)

I did notice the last couple times I went back to stock I had zero KR but I suspect that's the corn.

[metroplex]

Stock airload never exceeded 1.40, so the timing was a bit higher but it is still pulling the max 7.5* limit with the stock tune on 87 octane. Basically, the timing values are much lower at the 1.80 airload. Looking at the stock F-150 3.5 EB timing tables, they are running maybe 10* less timing in the same regions.

Do you have any logs for your timing advance at WOT?

[FoMoCoSHO]

FWIW I used nothing but the cheapest dino 5W-30 that met the Ford specification, cheapest Fram oil filter, and the least expensive 87 octane in the SHO for the past 3 years. I did run 93 octane several times to gather data to see what effect it had on knock retard, and here is what I found (see attached). Basically it helped reduce it but there's still knock retard. The SHO just seems to come from the factory with more timing advance at the high boost region than the other EcoBoost engines/vehicles. Looking at vehicles like the Focus RS and the F-150 3.5L, they're running about more retarded timing in the same regions.

I'm open to solid ideas about reducing knock retard. Again, I haven't touched the spark tables at all.

Its telling you you are running too much boost for your fuel.

Couple ways to test....

Drop your boost and see if it gives you some timing back...

Add 3 gallons of corn and change your stoich point to 13.54

I can tell you for a fact that your fuel quality is the issue.

We got to revision 4 or 5 with crap gas and we were about done. Swapped the blend back to Nitro + corn and we're at revision 15 and we're not done. That's a very mild blend of 20%.

I did not tell my tuner in advance what fuel I had in it (I know, dick move but it just happened that way) until we became knock limited very quickly.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Stock airload never exceeded 1.40, so the timing was a bit higher but it is still pulling the max 7.5* limit with the stock tune on 87 octane. Basically, the timing values are much lower at the 1.80 airload. Looking at the stock F-150 3.5 EB timing tables, they are running maybe 10* less timing in the same regions.

Do you have any logs for your timing advance at WOT?

Here is revision 10, there is a multigear WOT and a 3rd gear from low RPM WOT (locked in 3rd)

[metroplex]

Where did you get the 50 hp / 11.5* from? I always read it was about 1-2 hp per degree of timing pulled.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Where did you get the 50 hp / 11.5* from? I always read it was about 1-2 hp per degree of timing pulled.

I've been spending a lot of time reading here...

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Tech_Info_pg/layouts/techinfo2.htm

[metroplex]

What do your borderline knock and MBT tables look like?

[metroplex]

Where did you get the 50 hp / 11.5* from? I always read it was about 1-2 hp per degree of timing pulled.

I've been spending a lot of time reading here...

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Tech_Info_pg/layouts/techinfo2.htm

http://zzperformance.com/blog/about-knock-retard-kr/

[AJP turbo]

Fomo is a dick lol...its not a good idea to hood wink your tuner lol

Metro, if i didnt know any better i would say you want to blow your sho up...cheapest dino oil possible paired with 87 octane and 16 psi lol....i would ask why but really i dont care and dont want to know...honestly please don't elaborate

[FoMoCoSHO]

Fomo is a dick lol...its not a good idea to hood wink your tuner lol

Metro, if i didnt know any better i would say you want to blow your sho up...cheapest dino oil possible paired with 87 octane and 16 psi lol....i would ask why but really i dont care and dont want to know...honestly please don't elaborate

Sorry, I really didn't mean for it to happen that way.

You have to admit it does add to the value of the results.

[FoMoCoSHO]

What do your borderline knock and MBT tables look like?

I don't tune my own and I would consider those settings to be proprietary tuning info that I will not give out.

If said tuner would like to that is his decision to make.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Where did you get the 50 hp / 11.5* from? I always read it was about 1-2 hp per degree of timing pulled.

I've been spending a lot of time reading here...

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Tech_Info_pg/layouts/techinfo2.htm

http://zzperformance.com/blog/about-knock-retard-kr/

From that page

"Please note that this is not EXACT hp lost … it is approximate."

Kenne Belle has been dynoing cars for a long time so I will take their word for it.

[sholxgt]

Metro, if i didnt know any better i would say you want to blow your sho up...cheapest dino oil possible paired with 87 octane and 16 psi

Just wanted to see that in print again   Seems well put.

[metroplex]

The knock retard I'm seeing is about the same as the stock tune and starts dropping right after it starts. The final spark advance is lower because the airload is higher and goes to the next row on the BKT and MBT tables. The reason I asked to look at your BKT and MBT is because none of the factory EcoBoost engines (Focus RS, Mustang, F-150) are running timing that high in the high load/high RPM ranges.