Lowering Shift Points

[EcoPowerParts]

The way I understood it is that the torque is good for initial acceleration but at one point (in the power zone), it is the hp that takes over. So, ideally you would like a lot of torque in the low rpm, but from let's say 4000 to 6500, you want to have the most hp possible.
Surely in the first 2 gears, it is already optimal (with my current setup LMS tune, meth downpipes, etc.). After that, in gear 3-4... it is already shifting at around 6200 and dropping at 4500... It wouldn't make sense to have gears from 4500-5000 and shifts... And I seriously doubt that shifting at 5000 and going down to low 3000's would be better...
Finally, with all the work that Dan Millen from Livernois and with the 3000+ Ecoboost vehicles that have been tuned (many of them on the Dyno), I would doubt that he hasn't tried it before.
If LMS tuned the car to shift from 4500 to 6200, I trust it to be optimal... No?

If I trusted Livernois to be gospel I wouldn't be running E85 because they won't tune for it and according to them it's unsafe, I wouldn't be making 600WHP because I was told by them motor would blow at 450HP. Sorry I can't trust anybody but myself for what's best via experimentation and hard work.

[05yellowgt]

Horsepower is just a calculation based upon the torque and RPM.  Torque is what moves the car period.  Basing your gearing and shift points on the torque curve is the way to go.  The Ecoboosts have a broad and long torque curve.  Once the torque starts falling off, you are better to setup shift points just as 4DRHTRD is doing.           

[Needmoreboost]

I have brought this up before to a few members and it usually just blows over.  On the SHO's much past 5500 the hp is dropping fast.  I did not get to test this at the track, but my opinion for optimizing the torque curve would look something like this.  They shift stock usually 6000-6200 range.

1-2 leave stock
2-3 5700 rpm
3-4 5500 rpm
4-5 5500
5-6 5500

SCT does not have this option yet available to change the shift points.  So manually it's hard to do.  Dont know about Mycal??

[Josephm]

Believing in someone else's hearsay is just as bad as gossip, when someone else is willing to try it... Thanks 4DR for all the experimenting.

[steve142857]

Believing in someone else's hearsay is just as bad as gossip, when someone else is willing to try it... Thanks 4DR for all the experimenting.

Believing in someone else that knows more than you do is also called trust. I have trust with Livernois with all their experience. But at the same time, I admire 4DR that knows a lot about cars, which I don't, for taking it to another level.
That said, I can't blame Livernois for not wanting to go on the E85 route. Maybe one day, but they have a reputation to maintain and cannot afford to ruin it with experimentation. I guess they prefer to stick with what they know and are comfortable with.
So me too I want to say thanks to Mike 4DR for pushing it and thank you to Livernois that have so far been able to provide me with a powerful vehicle that is reliable with no bad surprises.
Cheers guys!

[EcoPowerParts]

Tried the lower shift points tonight, HUGE improvement. I'll be working on the self tuning this week and hope to have some great success (joke intended) with these shift points soon.
Looking forward to what I can do with the car now that I control the tuning as well.

[EcoBrick Bob]

Believing in someone else's hearsay is just as bad as gossip, when someone else is willing to try it... Thanks 4DR for all the experimenting.

Believing in someone else that knows more than you do is also called trust. I have trust with Livernois with all their experience. But at the same time, I admire 4DR that knows a lot about cars, which I don't, for taking it to another level.
That said, I can't blame Livernois for not wanting to go on the E85 route. Maybe one day, but they have a reputation to maintain and cannot afford to ruin it with experimentation. I guess they prefer to stick with what they know and are comfortable with.
So me too I want to say thanks to Mike 4DR for pushing it and thank you to Livernois that have so far been able to provide me with a powerful vehicle that is reliable with no bad surprises.
Cheers guys!

Livernois definitely error on conservative side... Big reputation to protect.  Also, like you said, most of us don't have the knowledge that 4DR has.  Look at my issue... opposite of a lean condition... never even considered that possibility.  E85 changes from season to season in ethanol content, at least in our area.  Also consistency varies based on volume sold.  Personally I worry about E-10 93 octane when the price differential in our area is over 20 cents a gallon more than E-10 91. Ethanol can separate quickly, that's why it is added to fuel at the terminal rather than at the refinery.  Our area ships thousands of rail car tankers full of Ethanol all over the US and probably into Canada. At times we have miles of them sitting on RR sidings.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Believing in someone else's hearsay is just as bad as gossip, when someone else is willing to try it... Thanks 4DR for all the experimenting.

Believing in someone else that knows more than you do is also called trust. I have trust with Livernois with all their experience. But at the same time, I admire 4DR that knows a lot about cars, which I don't, for taking it to another level.
That said, I can't blame Livernois for not wanting to go on the E85 route. Maybe one day, but they have a reputation to maintain and cannot afford to ruin it with experimentation. I guess they prefer to stick with what they know and are comfortable with.
So me too I want to say thanks to Mike 4DR for pushing it and thank you to Livernois that have so far been able to provide me with a powerful vehicle that is reliable with no bad surprises.
Cheers guys!

Livernois definitely error on conservative side... Big reputation to protect.  Also, like you said, most of us don't have the knowledge that 4DR has.  Look at my issue... opposite of a lean condition... never even considered that possibility.  E85 changes from season to season in ethanol content, at least in our area.  Also consistency varies based on volume sold.  Personally I worry about E-10 93 octane when the price differential in our area is over 20 cents a gallon more than E-10 91. Ethanol can separate quickly, that's why it is added to fuel at the terminal rather than at the refinery.  Our area ships thousands of rail car tankers full of Ethanol all over the US and probably into Canada. At times we have miles of them sitting on RR sidings.

Bob, what happened with your engine? Did it have to do with running E-85?

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

I am having no issues with an E-85/93 blend so far. Personally I don't necessarily need to run straight E-85 but i think there is some benefit to being able to run a mix. I'm up to 3 gallons which with the pre-fill up mix of E-8.8 comes to E-13.9, octane is at 94.9

Torque Pro Max wheel torque has gone from the 290 range to the 310 range with one romp hitting 318. I NEVER saw 300 before E-85. Fuel rail pressure is good (2459-2600) along with AFR and lambda, commanded and measured. Timing advance is a little over 20 at full boost/WOT.

If the stock ECU doesn't seem to have issues with a blend I'm not sure why tuning for a blend is such a big deal.

Anyone have any idea why my rail pressure is so high? Did something change with the 2013's?

[Needmoreboost]

To FoMoCo;

Running a little E on stock tune is ok.  Most people on here have tunes.  The tunes via more boost, fuel tables, and timing are running leaner than stock.  I would be careful if your tuned playing with E without meth or additional fuel.

Btw Ive done both and the tune is far better and makes much more power than stock tuning with E.  I assume your non tuned...right?

[EcoBrick Bob]

 
[/quote]

Bob, what happened with your engine? Did it have to do with running E-85?

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html


Never ran anything with higher alcohol content in fuel before a couple weeks ago. E-85 or a mix of it wasn't my issue. With our stock fuel system and NO spray, I would never make a mix that was stronger than E-30.

My problem was ME using 100% Denatured alcohol for spray at low RPM....Lugged engine with full boost on... Ran  out of Methanol.

MY BAD...

[EcoPowerParts]

Bob, what happened with your engine? Did it have to do with running E-85?

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html


Never ran anything with higher alcohol content in fuel before a couple weeks ago. E-85 or a mix of it wasn't my issue. With our stock fuel system and NO spray, I would never make a mix that was stronger than E-30.

My problem was ME using 100% Denatured alcohol for spray at low RPM....Lugged engine with full boost on... Ran  out of Methanol.

MY BAD...

Bob accidentally hydrolocked his motor with his meth injection.

[bpd1151]

It wasn't his Meth Injection in and of itself, but more Bob having used an alternate substance in that system, and mixing it improperly.

Let's not scare people thinking it was the Meth Injection itself, it wasn't.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

[FoMoCoSHO]

To FoMoCo;

Running a little E on stock tune is ok.  Most people on here have tunes.  The tunes via more boost, fuel tables, and timing are running leaner than stock.  I would be careful if your tuned playing with E without meth or additional fuel.

Btw Ive done both and the tune is far better and makes much more power than stock tuning with E.  I assume your non tuned...right?

What AFR are the tuned cars running?

I am being careful, that's why I'm data logging and looking for feedback from some of the vets here. There seems to be conflicting info on whether the cars run out of fuel on ANY mix of E-85 yet my data is showing no issue.

I believe the benefits of a blend will also benefit a tuned car, especially lower intake charge temps and detonation resistance....If it doesn't run out of fuel.

I am not tuned yet but I understand the methods involved.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Bob, what happened with your engine? Did it have to do with running E-85?

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html


Never ran anything with higher alcohol content in fuel before a couple weeks ago. E-85 or a mix of it wasn't my issue. With our stock fuel system and NO spray, I would never make a mix that was stronger than E-30.

My problem was ME using 100% Denatured alcohol for spray at low RPM....Lugged engine with full boost on... Ran  out of Methanol.

MY BAD...
[/quote]

Senior moment?

All kidding aside, that sucks.

[EcoPowerParts]

It wasn't his Meth Injection in and of itself, but more Bob having used an alternate substance in that system, and mixing it improperly.

Let's not scare people thinking it was the Meth Injection itself, it wasn't.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

Actually there's been lots of hydrolocked motors over time with meth injection. The new controllers take care of most of that but it does happen still. There's a reason why I don't like it and prefer E85.