my 2017 SHO w/PP

[Cobra93]

I did a log with fuel pump percentage, duty cycle and module duty cycle.

I still see the TB opening to ~30%, closing and then opening up to ~80% slowly.
Looks like this is during the shift to second.

This live link is pretty nice, I need to understand what more of the PID's actually are.

I was thinking of pulling the upper intake and cleaning the valves, but I can't find much info as to torque specs for the bolt, sequence and i assume the bolts are too small to be torque to yield.

Thanks SHOdded.

[SHOdded]

i haven't had time to look at the logs yet, today or tomorrow most likely.

yeah tuning devices are a different beast from obd scanners.

i have to look up the intake removal info. but usually the best cleaning is done with walnut shell blasting, something to leave to the pros. may require each cylinder to be TDC before attempting the valves on that cylinder so there's that effort and time involved. if that is true, you cannot address all cylinders simultaneously, you have to go 1 by 1.

[Cobra93]

I appreciate the help.

The manifold looks pretty easy to remove. I ordered new gaskets, end brushes, picks and an extension for the drill.
I haven't found any torque specs on the bolts, I'll keep looking.
I also don't know if the coolant crossover tube is attached to the manifold. I'll get som mirrors or the scope out to check.

Thanks SHOdded. look at them when you have the time.

[SHOdded]

i have looked at the first log, main thing of note is the knock you see in 1st and 4th gears. very little knock in first but noticeable in 4th, after a downshift. good thing is no knock on acceleration. fuel trims look fine for oem tune as it will run pig rich at times with an 0.7 afr when more fuel is demanded. i still have to graph throttle input vs acceleration/knock to see if theres anything there, but did you go really wot? looks like gradual acceleration 13s run with as much time in 1st as 2-shift to 4th. will be looking at it some more before moving on to the next log. seems transmission response is off. now whether it is due to pcm or tcm or actual transmission hardware idk.

no wheel hop right?

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=7937.0
torque source management

* 0 - Driver Demand
** 1 - Transmission torque truncation
** 2 - Traction Control
** 3 - Vehicle Speed Limiting
** 4 - Engine Speed Limiting
** 5 - Anticlunk Tipin torque limiting or Tipin rate limiting
** 6 - Tipout torque
** 7 - Transmission Shift Modulation
** 8 - Engine Oil Over temperature
** 9 - Target N
** 10 - Powertrain Limiting Protection FMEM Limit
** 11 - ETC FMEM - RPM Guard
** 12 - PATS
** 13 - OSCMOD
** 14 - Speed Control
** 15 - Transfer Case Torque Limit
** 16 - Torque Based Decel
** 17 - VDE
** 18 - Engine Indicated Torque Limit
** 19 - Engine Combustion Stability Torque Limit
** 20 - HEV Torque Reduction at engine start or stop
** 21 - HEV Tipout Torque Reduction

what you seen in wot1
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?53586-Torque-Truncation-vs-Torque-Reduction&s=a855985b9655119bdfca315a88af5675&p=421188&viewfull=1#post421188

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20070039770A1/en

i am learning alongside you lol hopefully we can figure this out together, but i am thinking when you get the sho tuned, it will fix this problem. lets see.

btw i do not recommend wot until transmission temp is at bare minimum 100f or above. i prefer it to be at bottom of N.O.T. but not always possible. since there is NO active heating of transmission fluid, it will take a lot longer than engine to reach operating temp. i have seen it as high as 15 min in cold winters and 5 min in summers. so add that to your logging. i do so routinely on my vehicles. ford vehicles love fresh fluid and being at good temps before being thrashed.

[Cobra93]

Yes, I went WOT. It is consistent. almost every time it opens to ~30°, closes some, then goes slowly to ~80°.
I'll have to look, but I think max "actual throttle opening" is always at the shift into second gear.

There's is no wheel spin.

I feel stupid for saying this, but if I open the log with live link gen 2 on my pc it automatically brings up all the parameters on a graph that I can select any I want to view. I don't know if it's that easy for a posted log or not. I hate to see you doing things the hard way if it can be easier.

I can see the throttle go to max immediately, but actual throttle angle does that weird thing most every time.

Okay I do see torque source on the graph now. I've seen it mentioned in reference to possible traction control kicking in.
i see it goes from
9(before I floor it) to
0 (as I floor it) to
1 (all the way to the shift into second gear)
7 (during the shift)
1 ( as it enters second gear)
0 (as it accelerates in second gear)
7 (as it shifts to third)
1 ( as it accelerates in third)
Then I let off
16 for a moment to
It shows 9 as I'm coasting and slowing down.

So What it shows is first gear acceleration (1)" transmission torque truncation".
To truncate is like limiting or taking the top off something as i understand it.

That sounds like the car, for whatever reason, is doing exactly what the graphs show for actual throttle angle.

I will try tomorrow morning with all the nanny's turned off and see if it does anything different.

This is a screen shot of the first log I posted where I felt like the boost hit hard right before the shift to second gear.
I didn't want to turn on to many things.

I will start reading on torque source to see if I can understand  it a bit better.

Thanks again SHOdded.

[SHOdded]

i think i updated my post after your last post lol so have added info on truncation and more.

next time you go to wot, make sure trans is warmed up. i think 176f or so iirc check owners manual. lets see if that makes the difference.

[Cobra93]

I will do that.
So you know, I am about 500' from a road that is a 50 mph limit.
This is where I'm doing the logs.
I will add trans temp and make sure it is warm to log and see if that is the difference.

Thanks SHOdded.

I will try to get a new log tomorrow, but it may not be until friday.
second thought the 10 or so mile drive on the e-way will have the tranny up to temp.
I should be able to get a log and add trans temp after work tomorrow.

[SHOdded]

https://www.transmissiondigest.com/torque-reduction/

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?msg=92900

[Cobra93]

I read through the links you sent. Torque source seem to be like rule by committe, if everyone is not a go, you don't.

I added trans temp this morning, sent it to the x4, but it wasn't there to select.
I don't know if I did it wrong in a rush or the x4 will only hold so many config files.
I'll try again after work.

I changed one guage to torque source.
16 is cruise control.
After exiting the e-way I came to a stop, then floored it.
It took off pretty good, no issues.
I saw 0 while accelerating through first.
1 during the shift and back to 0 accelerating in second.
So 1 must be a torque limit imposed for the shift.

It would seem you have found out the answer to the odd throttle behavior. The car said nope, not warm enough.
I'll check and post the log tonight.

It is a good feeling that my car may not have issues after all.
It's just smarter than the cars I used to have.

Thanks SHOdded.

[SHOdded]

curious that the x4 does not have a trans temp pid, tbh idk if i ever saw it on any of the log files posted on this forum. i guess use torque to confirm operating temp then switch over to x4 for logging if it comes to that.

you could use an obd splitter with a scangauge type tool but idk how reliably the obd port works with that.

yeah, sure hope it is something as simple as torque source!

fluid level can be slightly over filled like a pint or so, but again idk if that would make a difference vs temp. i guess the viscosity of the fluid has to be at the goldilocks tipping point for the trans to behave correctly. automatics have all that slippage with the tc which can make it a pain until you use a tune to harden the shift.

[Cobra93]

I was able to select trans temp as a PID.
However, when i sent the file to the x4 and tried to find it. I couldn't.
I renamed the config file each time I changed or added to the datalog config file.
I tried to send it to the x4 again tonight.
I'll check if it is on the x4 in the morning.

I assume there is a sensor, I have it selected in the attached pic, 4th from the bottom of the list.

[SHOdded]

yes there is a TFT sensor, it just does not display on the dash.

can you see the temp with torque tho? i sure hope so.

also make sure your x4 is uptodate softwarewise. can run into issues if not. some have concerns with updating because of all the epa related controls they have now but what can u do.

[Cobra93]

I had torque running on the way home today. I was surprised 8 miles on the e-way and the trans was only at 142°.
The car felt better this morning after exiting the e-way, the log is below.

It is still odd with the actual throttle angle and it went from 0 to torque source of 1  while accelerating in first gear. It felt better though.

After work and the TFT in the 140°'s I thought I'd try another 0-60 run.
the shifter was in S, the car seemed to fall on it's face and not really recover.
The time on torque was 6.4 seconds.
I don't have a log of it. Torque is showing all blue (obd, gps and car) except my phone is red.
The logs seem to have a long span between data and is not really usable.

SO whatever is going on seems to be caused by the transmission, no clue what.
I believe the trans was around 90° before I pulled out of the parking lot, so I don't think the sensor is faulty or at least it is not obvious like reading some arbitrary low number. Even after 3 0-60 runs it only hit the 170°'s.

I did find on live link where I can delete the config files, so I should be able to see the one with TFT selected.

This is very frustrating.

I have been doing the 5 in/out on the tranny, I'll recheck the level and ad a 1/2 quart to see if that makes any difference.

Thanks SHOdded.

I'll add this. Up to 1/2 throttle seems strong, but more than that (when it does this) feels much less strong.

[Cobra93]

I've been screwing around with the x4.
I deleted all the config files I loaded.
I looked at the Gearhead file and it has TFT selected.
I found out how to switch to 8 gauges from 2 and TFT is displayed and working.

Wow, this is a rabbit hole I've traveled down.
Late to the party as usual, and allot of catching up to do.

[SHOdded]

welcome to the real. lol.

that fuel pump duty cycle looks high at 60, i have usually seen it set to just under 50. 60 means the pump is allowed to overdrive to 120% of max iirc. it may be a difference between 2010-12 and 2013+ tuning but i dont think so.

anyway i found an old log for your perusal, from a 2010-12 sho iirc.