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It might be time to remove LMS from this forum, vote up and let me know

Started by EcoPowerParts, April 29, 2020, 02:36:57 PM

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ZSHO

Please be respectful but mindful towards one's or others opinions! Don't want this Topic to steer off course.. TIA. Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Jordan

Once again with the first hand logic. Like I said I don't have to be hit by a car to know it's bad. I'm sure all of us have looked up a restaurant to eat at and wouldn't touch the 2/5 stars place if we knew there was a 4/5 or better spot that gave the same type of food. The entire world lives off experiences of others.
World's Fastest SHO Ecoboost July 2019 - Current

2020 Power Numbers - 536AWHP/647Torque

SM105K

Quote from: SHONuf on May 01, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.   Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.       
"M" 2013 SHO PP | AJPTurbo E30 Tune | FS HPFP | Stock IC with Ice Water DIY Sprayer | PPE Downpipes | Custom Magnaflow Resonator | 3rd Cat Delete | Derale Upgraded Trans Cooler | Dicunzolo Gen2 Trans Mounts| EPP Noisemaker Eliminator | MSD Coil Over Plugs | SP-542's | UPR Dual Valve Catch Can | K&N Drop In | Power Stop Slotted and Drilled Rotors with Stock PP Pads | H&R Springs  | AVS Flush Deflector | 802SHO Custom Splitter | Duraflex Chin Spoiler | Curva Concept C7's | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber | 411 HP and 546 TQ |

"The Fukus" 2013 Focus ST | Boomba BOV | FSWerks Short Shifter | Power Stop Brakes | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber |

Macgyver

Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 12:13:05 PM
I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.   Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.       

I have modded this forum since near day one and in NO way is this true.......

https://www.jukeforums.com

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: SHONuf on May 01, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.   Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.       
Does that allegation include EBPF?


SM105K

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:02:16 PM
Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: SHONuf on May 01, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.   Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.       
Does that allegation include EBPF?



Not that I have seen because I am pretty sure Mike posted the poll. I don't know if there is a vendor fee for this forum. In forums that do charge a fee, the vendor usually gets preferred treatment. Obviously because of revenue. However, LMS has gotten some special treatment in the past when things starting getting spicy before...

This is probably why there is almost a 2 to 1 ratio to remove LMS.
"M" 2013 SHO PP | AJPTurbo E30 Tune | FS HPFP | Stock IC with Ice Water DIY Sprayer | PPE Downpipes | Custom Magnaflow Resonator | 3rd Cat Delete | Derale Upgraded Trans Cooler | Dicunzolo Gen2 Trans Mounts| EPP Noisemaker Eliminator | MSD Coil Over Plugs | SP-542's | UPR Dual Valve Catch Can | K&N Drop In | Power Stop Slotted and Drilled Rotors with Stock PP Pads | H&R Springs  | AVS Flush Deflector | 802SHO Custom Splitter | Duraflex Chin Spoiler | Curva Concept C7's | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber | 411 HP and 546 TQ |

"The Fukus" 2013 Focus ST | Boomba BOV | FSWerks Short Shifter | Power Stop Brakes | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber |

StealBlueSho

We should shut down comments. This is gonna cause a lot of butt hurt... for no reason... to people on the multiple sides of this discussion.

Leave the poll, shutdown the comments.

SM105K

Quote from: StealBlueSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:38:20 PM
We should shut down comments. This is gonna cause a lot of butt hurt... for now reason...

Leave the poll, shutdown the comments.

This comment is exactly what I am talking about.
"M" 2013 SHO PP | AJPTurbo E30 Tune | FS HPFP | Stock IC with Ice Water DIY Sprayer | PPE Downpipes | Custom Magnaflow Resonator | 3rd Cat Delete | Derale Upgraded Trans Cooler | Dicunzolo Gen2 Trans Mounts| EPP Noisemaker Eliminator | MSD Coil Over Plugs | SP-542's | UPR Dual Valve Catch Can | K&N Drop In | Power Stop Slotted and Drilled Rotors with Stock PP Pads | H&R Springs  | AVS Flush Deflector | 802SHO Custom Splitter | Duraflex Chin Spoiler | Curva Concept C7's | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber | 411 HP and 546 TQ |

"The Fukus" 2013 Focus ST | Boomba BOV | FSWerks Short Shifter | Power Stop Brakes | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber |

StealBlueSho

Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 09:39:25 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:38:20 PM
We should shut down comments. This is gonna cause a lot of butt hurt... for now reason...

Leave the poll, shutdown the comments.

This comment is exactly what I am talking about.
Honestly dude, I didn't even read all the comments, I started but then they just turned into finger pointing and pitting SHO owner against SHO owner.

This community is too small for this crap...

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:02:16 PM
Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: SHONuf on May 01, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.   Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.       
Does that allegation include EBPF?



Not that I have seen because I am pretty sure Mike posted the poll. I don't know if there is a vendor fee for this forum. In forums that do charge a fee, the vendor usually gets preferred treatment. Obviously because of revenue. However, LMS has gotten some special treatment in the past when things starting getting spicy before...

This is probably why there is almost a 2 to 1 ratio to remove LMS.
Unless something changed during my extended absence, EBPF takes no money from vendors.

It is a delicate balance protecting the membership from predatory vendors and vendors from members that place false blame without due diligence. Needlessly chasing away vendors when the vendor pool is admittedly shallow due to our platform is also a consideration.

It is my rule to always be a tiny bit biased towards the membership since, IMHO, the vendors hold the power.








StealBlueSho

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:46:37 PM
Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:02:16 PM
Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: SHONuf on May 01, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.   Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.       
Does that allegation include EBPF?



Not that I have seen because I am pretty sure Mike posted the poll. I don't know if there is a vendor fee for this forum. In forums that do charge a fee, the vendor usually gets preferred treatment. Obviously because of revenue. However, LMS has gotten some special treatment in the past when things starting getting spicy before...

This is probably why there is almost a 2 to 1 ratio to remove LMS.
Unless something changed during my extended absence, EBPF takes no money from vendors.

It is a delicate balance protecting the membership from predatory vendors and vendors from members that place false blame without due diligence. Needlessly chasing away vendors when the vendor pool is admittedly shallow due to our platform is also a consideration.

It is my rule to always be a tiny bit biased towards the membership since, IMHO, the vendors hold the power.
I was surprised to see you posting again, hope all is well!

SM105K

Quote from: StealBlueSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:42:57 PM
Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 09:39:25 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:38:20 PM
We should shut down comments. This is gonna cause a lot of butt hurt... for now reason...

Leave the poll, shutdown the comments.

This comment is exactly what I am talking about.
Honestly dude, I didn't even read all the comments, I started but then they just turned into finger pointing and pitting SHO owner against SHO owner.

This community is too small for this crap...

Read the comments. Things are civil, however there are opposing views. Blindly voting without doing any research or having any information past and present from both sides is borderline wreckless and irresponsible.

You are correct, our community is too small. Too small for any company to keep dropping the ball time and time again.
"M" 2013 SHO PP | AJPTurbo E30 Tune | FS HPFP | Stock IC with Ice Water DIY Sprayer | PPE Downpipes | Custom Magnaflow Resonator | 3rd Cat Delete | Derale Upgraded Trans Cooler | Dicunzolo Gen2 Trans Mounts| EPP Noisemaker Eliminator | MSD Coil Over Plugs | SP-542's | UPR Dual Valve Catch Can | K&N Drop In | Power Stop Slotted and Drilled Rotors with Stock PP Pads | H&R Springs  | AVS Flush Deflector | 802SHO Custom Splitter | Duraflex Chin Spoiler | Curva Concept C7's | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber | 411 HP and 546 TQ |

"The Fukus" 2013 Focus ST | Boomba BOV | FSWerks Short Shifter | Power Stop Brakes | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber |

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: StealBlueSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:48:00 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:46:37 PM
Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:02:16 PM
Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: SHONuf on May 01, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.   Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.       
Does that allegation include EBPF?



Not that I have seen because I am pretty sure Mike posted the poll. I don't know if there is a vendor fee for this forum. In forums that do charge a fee, the vendor usually gets preferred treatment. Obviously because of revenue. However, LMS has gotten some special treatment in the past when things starting getting spicy before...

This is probably why there is almost a 2 to 1 ratio to remove LMS.
Unless something changed during my extended absence, EBPF takes no money from vendors.

It is a delicate balance protecting the membership from predatory vendors and vendors from members that place false blame without due diligence. Needlessly chasing away vendors when the vendor pool is admittedly shallow due to our platform is also a consideration.

It is my rule to always be a tiny bit biased towards the membership since, IMHO, the vendors hold the power.
I was surprised to see you posting again, hope all is well!
Considering everything that happened the last 6 years, life is pretty good now!

StealBlueSho

Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 09:49:35 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:42:57 PM
Quote from: SM105K on May 01, 2020, 09:39:25 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on May 01, 2020, 09:38:20 PM
We should shut down comments. This is gonna cause a lot of butt hurt... for now reason...

Leave the poll, shutdown the comments.

This comment is exactly what I am talking about.
Honestly dude, I didn't even read all the comments, I started but then they just turned into finger pointing and pitting SHO owner against SHO owner.

This community is too small for this crap...

Read the comments. Things are civil, however there are opposing views. Blindly voting without doing any research or having any information past and present from both sides is borderline wreckless and irresponsible.

You are correct, our community is too small. Too small for any company to keep dropping the ball time and time again.
Hmm...

The post referencing all the issues with links is good. The problems comes in when people are posting opinions vs actual experience. "I heard it from a friend who...." which is something that can't be verified.

The approach here should be more on a factual basis with supported links to issues highlighting the problems. Preferably links to issues where LMS is directly responding.

That would provide a good starting point for uninformed members to develop their own opinions. However, I would venture to say, if you don't have enough information, you shouldn't be voting.

EDIT: I will say a year ago if you googled "SHO Tuning" LMS would have been the top 5 links.... now it's below unleashed, 5 star, gearhead, an stage 3... regardless of what you all decide to do, people are clearly "voting" with their wallets.

SM105K

And they are voting with their wallets because posts in forums are exposing the good and the bad in all turning aspects.

The links I posted are filled with actual LMS tune owners and their experiences.
"M" 2013 SHO PP | AJPTurbo E30 Tune | FS HPFP | Stock IC with Ice Water DIY Sprayer | PPE Downpipes | Custom Magnaflow Resonator | 3rd Cat Delete | Derale Upgraded Trans Cooler | Dicunzolo Gen2 Trans Mounts| EPP Noisemaker Eliminator | MSD Coil Over Plugs | SP-542's | UPR Dual Valve Catch Can | K&N Drop In | Power Stop Slotted and Drilled Rotors with Stock PP Pads | H&R Springs  | AVS Flush Deflector | 802SHO Custom Splitter | Duraflex Chin Spoiler | Curva Concept C7's | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber | 411 HP and 546 TQ |

"The Fukus" 2013 Focus ST | Boomba BOV | FSWerks Short Shifter | Power Stop Brakes | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber |