It might be time to remove LMS from this forum, vote up and let me know

[SM105K]

Where's the voting poll or is it just saying yay or nay here?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

It is at the top of this post.

[StinkinLinkin13]

Things have changed quite a bit on this site since I joined up. This site is the a big part of the reason I went with LMS. Now everyone is on a different bandwagon... So who knows... Check back in a year or two and see who's hated then. Who's been "crossed" and why everyone one else should hate them now too.. In my experience was Livernois perfect no. But they did what I asked usually within 3 days. Faster than some tuners... Some tuners disappear for quite a while. And some don't like to make changes for certain conditions... Some tuners don't sell parts some don't do installs. And my engine didn't blow while tuned by LMS... So I just can't jump on this hater bandwagon. I could try to lay blame as well... But we all play the game and know the inherent risk. Sometimes we win and break records... Sometime we lose and break motors and hearts... Its a part of the modding game we play. My 2¢. Idc what gets done on this site. But at this point they're worse that ***? What I would like to see is stats for all vendors/tuners. A review system of sorts. Actual verified data and numbers.

I hadn't even heard of some these other newer tuners till recently. Maybe they are better... Maybe not. Idk. I would believe Livernois has tuned way more 3.5s than all other vendors combined on this forum... Is that being considered? Idk. It seems to be the same group circle of people complaining here about LV... But at the same time some are rarely satisfied with one tuner over another and use multiple caught with greener grass on the other side syndrome.. Always looking for preferred quirks to be satisfied. Myself included.

[SM105K]

It just 100% proves you have to evolve with the market.  Just because you were good for years, doesn't mean that you are still good now.  As a dedicated tuning company...I am sorry, it SHOULD NOT take you three days to respond.  PERIOD. 

There are other tuners out there. They have proven that they can make more power safely.  That means a lot to this community.  Matt from Gearhead has gone above and beyond what LMS has ever done.  He developed, procured, and tested items/upgrades he brought to the market for our platform.  He developed tunes LMS could only hypothesize.  I know for a fact he even reached across the isle and tried to help LMS with some issues. 

Another tuner (AJPTurbo) doesn't tune full time.  It is a side gig.  Most people know this, yet want his services still.  It is common for a small delay in response.  If you know that going in, then it more acceptable.  I am one that wanted his services.  My SHO for what it is, flat out does work.  I could not be happier for what it is.

However, I will not let blind allegiance keep my eyes turned from the truth.  I pride my integrity and try my best to be transparent in all things.  If I see another tuner (including my tuner) doing questionable things, I will call them out and I will ask the questions.  It's all about checks and balances for me.

[StinkinLinkin13]

Gearhead is like the current LMS of a couple years ago. I'm hearing good things about them now and a lot of ranting and raving which is great. I may give them a try in the near future. I hear it from not just from the 3.5 community similar to LMS at the time. I don't have any blind allegiance to them. I have a positive experience with them and that's what I'll share. My transparency if you will. There was issues there was resolutions there was progress... This was just my experience. I know it's not everybody's. If my experience was all bad I'd be here saying so. But that's not the case and I can't say that. I was very happy with my meth e85 tune. The shifting I requested was amazing especially during light to light daily driving. The low end pull was instant. Running consistent 12.2s - 12.3s full weight down hear in hot ass Texas. So it is what it is. Plus they have continued to invest time and energy into the platform offering the new revisions as well as full 85 with no meth options. I just don't see why they should be banned when they do have more satified customers than not... Not just some high profile members of this forum.

[LostnEye]

Gearhead is like the current LMS of a couple years ago. I'm hearing good things about them now and a lot of ranting and raving which is great. I may give them a try in the near future. I hear it from not just from the 3.5 community similar to LMS at the time. I don't have any blind allegiance to them. I have a positive experience with them and that's what I'll share. My transparency if you will. There was issues there was resolutions there was progress... This was just my experience. I know it's not everybody's. If my experience was all bad I'd be here saying so. But that's not the case and I can't say that. I was very happy with my meth e85 tune. The shifting I requested was amazing especially during light to light daily driving. The low end pull was instant. Running consistent 12.2s - 12.3s full weight down hear in hot ass Texas. So it is what it is. Plus they have continued to invest time and energy into the platform offering the new revisions as well as full 85 with no meth options. I just don't see why they should be banned when they do have more satified customers than not... Not just some high profile members of this forum.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else but there are multiple owners in multiple threads here and on other forums/social media with horror stories or just plain bad business. I was tuned by LMS and thought everything was great. Dealt with the 1-2 shift issues thinking that's just a quirk of tubing this platform because that's what LMS tells customers. Little hesitation here and their same thing. Turns out it's not a quick of the platform it's a quick in their tuning along with the low fuel pressure issues that took a while to come out as you can't datalog with their proprietary hardware. After seeing multiple people with the same problems I decided to try another tuner and before switching tunes logged the LMS tune which had under 800psi at the rail. Those little hesitations were the throttle closing trying to save itself from the tune. While that's bad the real issue is how they handled it. Telling everyone everything it fine and just buy a $1600 fuel pump. Add in the smiley happy sales posts in contrast to the accusatory rants when anyone posts about there issue and the couple of high profile failures why do you think there are some vocal people trying to warn others.

[GhostlyGrenade]

Well, I've always heard people are more likely to complain instead of praise. Basically you are more motivated to make a bad review or post than a good one.

If we were able to survey all SHOs tuned by LMS, what would the ratio of satisfied customers be?

[StinkinLinkin13]

Yea... There is no ignorance here. I've been on this board for over 2 years now and read and heard the good and the bad... My experience was good. That's it. If you don't like that I and others have had a good overall experience than that's too bad for you. Unfortunately these boards can become very fanboyish. SSM vs Dicunzolo this vendor vs that vendor... LMS - S-I *** insert future tuner here*** hate bandwagon etc... That being said I don't claim LMS is for everyone... It all depends on you and your goals. I went to another tuner looking for more because I reached my limit with LMSs canned tunes. Well I got more in the way of a rod through the block. I DO NOT BLAME THAT TUNER and I'm not going to go on a personal vendetta to destroy their reputation. Quite honestly once I get my car situation settled. If everything goes well I will probably resume where we left off... Anyway I'm not going to go back and forth with the dead set haters I understand their view and its fair enough. I have my own view as everyone else does... At this point if you're going to ban LMS than you might as well ban anyone that has anything positive to say about them or their experience with them or even so much as mentions them.

[SHOdded]

Alrightey then.  Not seeing any further progress in this topic towards clarifying why one should vote one way or the other.  Let's focus instead on voting and racking up those numbers!

[Macgyver]

This is as simple as the SSM and ADM Engine mounts.

We all have our opinions. We are all big boys. We can spend our money where we want. The more vendors. The better it is for the Platform.

[ZSHO]

I think each esteemed member is entitled to their own opinion without compromise!
Please be well and stay safe everyone. Z

[Dxlnt1]

All things being equal, maybe this poll should include year of car in order to validate. Granted I have 4 other cars I drive so the SHO is not a daily driver. But I have NOT had any issues with the tune. I do occassionally get the HARD 1-2 shift and as others have stated was told (not sure I believed) that it was normal. Even the dealer made comments to that affect.

Maybe banning is too harsh a term. Maybe censoring them is better? And can be honed in their comments on 2013+ cars vs pre 2012 cars. Just a wild thought. They have contributed and pioneered a lot for the community, maybe profit got in the way of their progress. And if word gets out that one of  the biggest ecoboost forums is censoring or banning them, their ways could change. Up until now its just been one complaint at a time. THis board represents ? members of various vehicles that could certainly impact their bottom line!

Lastly, after being here maybe 5-7 years  now, I would more than likely NOT got with LMS if I was new here. But when I came they were big/bad/best s***! Thats not the case anymore!

Just my 2 cents

[ridered74]

What I would like to see is stats for all vendors/tuners. A review system of sorts. Actual verified data and numbers.

Agreed, and not just one trip down a dragstrip. That's what I like about dragy, I can load a tune go make 10-15 pulls and get an idea of about how that tune is going to run. Load a different tune and go make another 10-15 pulls.

As for datalog stats, I'd love to see WOT #'s for various vendors. PSI, timing and especially fuel pressure. My gearhead tune stays at 2900+ psi until I let off the gas.

The one thing I was impressed with about the LMS E30 tune was that the boost was pretty steady at 15 PSI and only about 15-20 hundredths slower than my gearhead tune, while the wastegate % was about 10% lower across the run than what i normally see.

Some people long term would prefer that, as it could lead to your turbos lasting longer. Me? Gimme those extra two tenths, I want to be faster even if it means I replace my turbos a little sooner.

LMS did send me the 93 V17 tune today so I will soon be running the rest of the E30 out of my car and doing some test tuns for data on the updated LMS tune.

[SHONuf]

Seems like emotions are running a little hot.  I know when someone has been burned emotion is definitely going to be present, and that's understandable.  For them.  However, I've seen at least few who've just "heard" negative things so they parrot it.  I'm not sure why those in the EcoBoost community feel so tribal about shops/vendors/tuners.  Why it must be an all or nothing approach?  Like we see this with Torrie and his SCT tunes vs Livernois.  We see it with SSM and Dicunzolo.  It just goes on and on.  Why? 

I guarantee there's plenty of folks that have LMS parts/tunes and don't have problems.  I'm one of them.  I personally have their tuner and thermostat and it's never let me down in 4 years.  Got my tunes the same day I requested it.  So no, I haven't ever experienced any issues.  Does that mean I need to go to them for everything, crap all over other shops, and be a fanboy?  Not at all.  I didn't like what they offered in terms of Intake so I went someplace else.  I didn't like their offerings for exhaust or downpipes so I had custom ones made.  Just buy what you want from where you want.  Vote with your dollars.  That's my two cents. 

I'm sorry to say this is one of the primary reasons I don't frequent the forums much: just too much negativity and bad vibes.  Which is a shame because I've learned so much here from helpful, experienced members and it's been a massive help.  But the reason I don't really use social media is kind of the same reason that I don't use the forums much.

[Jordan]

Seems like emotions are running a little hot.  I know when someone has been burned emotion is definitely going to be present, and that's understandable.  For them.  However, I've seen at least few who've just "heard" negative things so they parrot it.  I'm not sure why those in the EcoBoost community feel so tribal about shops/vendors/tuners.  Why it must be an all or nothing approach?  Like we see this with Torrie and his SCT tunes vs Livernois.  We see it with SSM and Dicunzolo.  It just goes on and on.  Why? 

I guarantee there's plenty of folks that have LMS parts/tunes and don't have problems.  I'm one of them.  I personally have their tuner and thermostat and it's never let me down in 4 years.  Got my tunes the same day I requested it.  So no, I haven't ever experienced any issues.  Does that mean I need to go to them for everything, crap all over other shops, and be a fanboy?  Not at all.  I didn't like what they offered in terms of Intake so I went someplace else.  I didn't like their offerings for exhaust or downpipes so I had custom ones made.  Just buy what you want from where you want.  Vote with your dollars.  That's my two cents. 

I'm sorry to say this is one of the primary reasons I don't frequent the forums much: just too much negativity and bad vibes.  Which is a shame because I've learned so much here from helpful, experienced members and it's been a massive help.  But the reason I don't really use social media is kind of the same reason that I don't use the forums much.

My qualms with LMS comes from my 3 biggest competitors for the platform record. Every single one of them has been burned by LMS.

BPD was burned by LMS on his big build and I don't need to get into that
Ryan Spencer's LMS built motor lasted all of 6 days before he had to replace it with another one
802SHO was repetitively told that it was his car that had issues and not their tuning considering his was only running 10 psi.

These are all friends of mine and I would consider them "elite members" in terms of pushing the platform. Nobody else is really close other than some nonparticipating members that have ran an 11.6 or something along those lines. 3 out of 3 of them all have been burned by LMS. I am not trying to critique you but, in my opinion, we need to stop letting others get burned. The whole "let your dollars do the speaking" thing is nonsense. Just because you haven't been hit by a car doesn't mean you that you know it's a bad idea to be. We learn from other people's experiences and let that form/shape our entire lives.

If I were in the place where I were looking for a built motor and I didn't know about the issues my 3 good friends have had I would probably buy it, but knowing the issues that so many have had I know to steer far away. It's a matter of morals at this point. Could you own and operate a business and feel okay at the end of the day knowing you took customers for a ride. There is plenty more to LMS issues than I have stated here in. Just a little bit more of my 2 cents.

[SHONuf]

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.