February 27, 2020, 06:54:10 PM
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Author Topic: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<  (Read 5579 times)

Offline SuperPete

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Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« on: January 19, 2020, 06:46:37 PM »
This is something that has been on my mind as long as I had this car, about 5 months now.
I been reading up and did not find anyone really proving this or denying this, so I decided to test it myself.

Intake short ram pipe, in my case its K&N aluminum pipe that heat soaks like crazy during stops.
I know some will say that it don't matter because turbos compressing air and making it hot anyway, then why worry about cold air intake from outside of the engine, let just take one from engine bay and call it good, anyway back to my test.

Ambient Temp 36F

TEST 1, AS IS
For car to full operating temp, engine and transmission, pulled in to garage shut the engine down for 5 minutes. after 5 min came back started engine up and here are my measurements after 5 min heat soak:

Intake Temp (at the filter) - 68.00F
CAC Temp (at throttle body) - 70.16F
IAT2 Temp (manifold) - 120.19F

TEST 2, wrapped short ram pipe with exhaust heat shield wrap, see photos.
30 min after first test, Went back for another quick drive to bring my temps back up to same temps, came back home, parked in the garage, shot engine off, 5 min later, started the car and readings are:

Intake Temp (at the filter) - 62.59F
CAC Temp (at throttle body) - 73.06F
IAT2 Temp (manifold) - 122.00F

SO HERE YOU GO for everyone to think about and see if there are any benefits of it or not.
I am sure summer day with 95F outside change will show more dramatic...




« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 06:50:40 PM by SuperPete »
2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
PPE Downpipes, GearHead Intercooler, AirAid Intake
XDI-35 HPFP @ E40,   MSD Coilpacks
MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
Continental Extreme Contact 06 & Powerstop Z23 all 4 corners

Offline 802SHO

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2020, 05:04:52 AM »
Interesting. I think more tests need to be performed to give the wrap a better chance.

Test 1, cold start? Warm up, quick drive, park, start....Heat Soak environment and readings without the wrap.

Test 2, wait 30 min, add wrap and same protocol, drive, park, start. The Intake temp was down, everything else within 2-3° .

This is my thinking and questions. Do you think without the wrap, test 2 would have seen even hotter temps across the board? CAC and IAT2 went up but perhaps without the wrap much more than 2-3°? So I wonder if the wrap is helping more than it seems but perhaps once its heat soaked....its heat soaked....and the wrap couldn't reduce that once it had already begun. I wonder if overall the wrap does keep it colder and on average cooler than if there were no exhaust wrap.

I suggest more tests. Cold start with wrap, quick drive, park, sit 5 min, start. Twice in a row. Then let the car cool for a few hours. Cold start no wrap, then another test no wrap. Then maybe the results will be more clear?
2010 SHO non PP, GH upgraded turbos, GH upgraded IC, EPP Hot Pipes, Alky Control Methonal Injection, Alky dual nozzle upgrade, Zex Nitrous, Dicunzolo Gen2 torque mounts, SP542 .028, 160 T, Airaid Intake, 3bar, Thunderstorm Catless Downpipes, custom stainless 2.5" double xpipe w/muffler deletes 4" quad tips, UPR Dual Valve Catch Can, Derale 10000 series 16 row trans cooler, 13+ PP Trans Cooler, Econoaid throttle Body Booster, Mickey Thompson 20x9 SC-5 Wheels, Continental Extreme Contact DW tires F: 245/40/20 R: 275/35/20, H&R Springs all around w/rear cut 1/2", 1" hubcentric wheel spacers m14 1.5 stud/lug conversion, Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge, Tuned by AJP Turbo
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Offline SuperPete

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2020, 01:48:04 PM »
Sooo,
Got my AirAid, already seeing the differences in the temps at idle, allot less heat-soak short therm.
Working on making of some kind of cover to block off all of the enginebay hot air getting sucked in to the box.
Look at the picture, that filter sticks out high, how can you even cover it?
and what ever cover you get will block top part of the filter and restrict it's airflow.
I bet you the hood is laying right on top of it and cutting filter surface by 1/3
WOW
what a nightmare...

P.S. and I am not finished with wrapping pipes, ordered some interesting material that I have big hopes for and waiting for it to arrive.
I still believe that wrapping should take away short heatsoaks to non
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 02:05:09 PM by SuperPete »
2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
PPE Downpipes, GearHead Intercooler, AirAid Intake
XDI-35 HPFP @ E40,   MSD Coilpacks
MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
Continental Extreme Contact 06 & Powerstop Z23 all 4 corners

Online SHOdded

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2020, 02:10:15 PM »
All you might need to accomplish the seal is a taller weatherstrip if the current one does not seal to the hood.  The rest is mostly bling.  You could also line the inside of the box with insulation from the home hardware store.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline ZSHO

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2020, 02:30:01 PM »
It seems the Airaid intake is not properly installed IMO!
The snorkel needs to be fully flushed IIRC & the intake Box needs to snap in place in order to align properly. Z
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 02:36:45 PM by ZSHO »

                  

2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Offline SuperPete

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2020, 02:35:19 PM »
It seems the Airaid intake is not properly installed IMO..
The snorkel needs to be fully flushed IIRC & the Box needs to snap in place. Z

It's installed very well, seems in place.

Can someone look and take a picture of your file from same angle of view?
2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
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MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
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Offline ZSHO

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2020, 02:45:48 PM »
Does the hood close properly ? Here is a PIC of the Taller Strip for comparison. Z




« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 02:49:20 PM by ZSHO »

                  

2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Offline SuperPete

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2020, 02:53:23 PM »
Hood closes just fine, box installed fine in place like it should.
It's just looking from the angle where I took the picture and estimating hood hight as closed it is defiantly laying on top of the filter at list at the front part of it.

OK, confirmed it's not touching the hood but boy is it close.
I put napkin on top of the filter and scraped some chalk on it, closed the hood and no chalk imprint on the hose liner, you can raise it by about 1/4" and it will touch so clearance if small.

Now I need to figure out taller gasket or weatherstripping



« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 03:10:07 PM by SuperPete »
2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
PPE Downpipes, GearHead Intercooler, AirAid Intake
XDI-35 HPFP @ E40,   MSD Coilpacks
MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
Continental Extreme Contact 06 & Powerstop Z23 all 4 corners

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2020, 11:09:06 PM »
Airaid used to send out the taller gasket for free, they might still, if gently persuaded.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline SuperPete

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2020, 06:21:40 AM »
e-mailed them, new gasket on the way,
thank you
2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
PPE Downpipes, GearHead Intercooler, AirAid Intake
XDI-35 HPFP @ E40,   MSD Coilpacks
MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
Continental Extreme Contact 06 & Powerstop Z23 all 4 corners

Offline Davidsiebert2

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out&lt;&lt;&lt;
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2020, 04:58:49 AM »
This is something that has been on my mind as long as I had this car, about 5 months now.
I been reading up and did not find anyone really proving this or denying this, so I decided to test it myself.

Intake short ram pipe, in my case its K&N aluminum pipe that heat soaks like crazy during stops.
I know some will say that it don't matter because turbos compressing air and making it hot anyway, then why worry about cold air intake from outside of the engine, let just take one from engine bay and call it good, anyway back to my test.

Ambient Temp 36F

TEST 1, AS IS
For car to full operating temp, engine and transmission, pulled in to garage shut the engine down for 5 minutes. after 5 min came back started engine up and here are my measurements after 5 min heat soak:

Intake Temp (at the filter) - 68.00F
CAC Temp (at throttle body) - 70.16F
IAT2 Temp (manifold) - 120.19F

TEST 2, wrapped short ram pipe with exhaust heat shield wrap, see photos.
30 min after first test, Went back for another quick drive to bring my temps back up to same temps, came back home, parked in the garage, shot engine off, 5 min later, started the car and readings are:

Intake Temp (at the filter) - 62.59F
CAC Temp (at throttle body) - 73.06F
IAT2 Temp (manifold) - 122.00F

SO HERE YOU GO for everyone to think about and see if there are any benefits of it or not.
I am sure summer day with 95F outside change will show more dramatic...


Super Pete
I experimented with this as well and yielded some pretty shocking results.
So I used the reflective insulating tape, which created a radiant barrier to not absorb the heat from the engine.
I wrapped my cold air pipe and my epp hot pipe that goes over the engine. This alone dropped my average iat2 temps tremendously. And I can sit and idle for an hour and my iat2 never goes above 120-130 degrees. My cruising temps dropped to 15-20 above ambient and I do not have an intercooler. I drive an hour to work everyday with a lot of traffic and was able to get a lot of testing done. Prior to wrapping I had removed the rear hood seal and cut out the section of the front seal where it blocks air from entering the intake duct work.

My next steps are to use .065 wall stainless tubing to make my noise maker pipe , turbo outlet to intercooler pipes and my cold air pipe. The epp pipes while they look nice they also transfer the engine bay heat into the charge air faster than you can blink. The stainless pipe has the slowest heat transfer time of standard materials


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Offline SuperPete

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2020, 07:32:32 AM »
Reflective tape is ok, but its still gets heat soaking, I will be wrapping my pipes with regular foil, then with 1/2" thick foam like insulator and also has aluminum lining on out side to reflect heat and I will also maybe try to wrap all that up with exhaust wrap just for comparison, that multi layer should do some magic.

I will keep this updated
2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
PPE Downpipes, GearHead Intercooler, AirAid Intake
XDI-35 HPFP @ E40,   MSD Coilpacks
MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
Continental Extreme Contact 06 & Powerstop Z23 all 4 corners

Offline SuperPete

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2020, 07:38:13 PM »
Airaid used to send out the taller gasket for free, they might still, if gently persuaded.

I got replacement gasket from AirAid and its the same one I have, little short of 1"

How tall should be the tall one?
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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2020, 02:13:49 AM »
Not sure.  Have to check previous postings about it.

The taller strip SEEMS almost 2" in height?
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3492.msg54567.html#msg54567

"The small one is about 1 inch, the taller is about 1 and 3/4. The D is about 3/4 of an inch. "

Review on Amazon from 2017 (might be one of us LOL)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2O68ENBL5DA73/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B004BRAQBG

Quote
The whole point of a cold air intake kit is to allow cold air to enter the fresh air tract. Instead, this kit uses an extremely short weatherstrip seal that doesn't seal properly against the hood allowing massive amounts of hot air to enter the engine. 3 years ago (around 2014), you could contact Airaid and get a taller weatherstrip seal. Sometime between then and now, their customer service dropped into the sewer. They will deny the existence of such a seal and claim that the airbox is not intended to seal against the hood. Yet, their own website advertises that the seal is supposed to seal against the hood!

The heat soak/ingestion results in a severe power loss and the heat soak takes a lot of time to cool off especially at the track. At an ambient of 60F on the street, I can see intake air temps soar above 140F. At the drag strip, that intake air temp does not drop even close to ambient until you're almost at the 1/4 mile line doing above 100 mph.

The filter seems more restrictive than paper, but the larger surface area tries to compensate. The air filter adapter doesn't seal flush against the air box and relies on that thick neoprene gasket for a proper seal (very poor design).

The intake air temp sensor housing isn't designed properly either. I can clearly see the blue O-Ring seal exposed inside the air tube when the IAT is installed as per Airaid's instructions. I sprayed some water on the outside and saw it immediately seep into the airtube. I'm not sure how many users of the Airaid bothered to even check this. Also, the IAT is positioned at an odd angle so the stock harness can't even reach it!

The best you will see from this is about 10 hp with the hood propped open on a chassis dyno. You'll need to use home made methods of sealing the airbox (pipe insulation, taller weatherstripping but good luck finding the taller weatherstripping) to maybe shed 0.10 seconds in the 1/4 mile ET, and that's on a SHO/MKS with all of the bolt-ons you can install, water/meth injection, and a 17 psi tune.

Overall: 1/5 stars
Looks cool under the hood if you have money to burn. Otherwise doesn't add any legitimate performance even on a tuned SHO. Terrible design, almost seems like idiots slapped together the design and sold it at a premium. Notice on the new Airaids for EcoBoost Mustangs, they seal the box with plexiglass... essentially converting a panel filter into a cone filter within the same airbox and snorkle design.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 02:23:07 AM by SHOdded »
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline SuperPete

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Re: Wrapping intake pipe, numbers are out<<<
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2020, 06:29:18 AM »
Yes, I need the 2" one or I need to find something similar online so I can just buy it and move on, I feel like explaining this to airaid like talking to the wall, they dont get.
as of right now I fut off cardboard to lay on top of the intake and it does the job sealing the box and numbers are grate but how long can I drive around with cardboard, LOL

2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
PPE Downpipes, GearHead Intercooler, AirAid Intake
XDI-35 HPFP @ E40,   MSD Coilpacks
MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
Continental Extreme Contact 06 & Powerstop Z23 all 4 corners

 

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