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Was told I needed a new turbo, a little suspicious of the diagnosis

Started by ncole, November 11, 2019, 10:20:48 AM

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ncole

2011 SHO non pp.  Just under 150k miles. LME tuned with SP-534 plugs ~.030"  No oil catch can, never looked at oil separator.  No low oil message and about 2k miles before due oil change.  Don't believe to be fuel related even though my wife drove it the night before and fueled it up.  I did the math, and she 100% put 93 in it.  I was really hoping that was all it was.
Driving in to work on highway showed no signs of issues.  I passed a few people per normal and hit 80-90 with good power.  The last 3-4 miles is in town with stop lights.  I first noticed a blinking check engine light and saw a P0305 (cylinder 5 misfire) and an O2 sensor code (not sure which one, but probably a byproduct of the misfire anyway)  I cleared them and continued driving.  Then at a stoplight I saw a bit more than normal smoking out the exhaust, white best I could tell.  I noticed a little vibration and then CE light started flashing again.  P0305, P0306, & P0300 (random or mult cylinders I believe)  Vibration got worse, felt down on power even though I was babying it at this point and still smoking. 
I got it to a shop that is walking distance to work.  Admittedly, I only let them do tires and oil typically.  I noticed some lingering smoke out the tail pipes after it was shut down.   I let them know about the plugs assuming they would check them or at least 5 and 6.  For some reason they took that information and decided to gap them to .040" even though they were all around .030"  They then charged me 1.6 hours which amounted to $144 for re-gapping my plugs to the wrong gap which I specifically told them not to do!  I will deal with that, but I believe all plugs were decent.  I repeatedly told them to check coils and saw no mention of that in the report.  When talking to them, I mentioned that I had a bit of a concern for the turbo seals especially the front since it was 5 and 6 that misfired.  This was more just that panicking out loud thinking you do when worrying about your repair bill.  I now think he took that and ran with it because he didn't want to deal with it.  Thinking about it now, the turbos dump into one intake and feed all six out of one intake so I don't think that logic was sound.  So $224 and a job they won't do with a diagnosis I question is where I am now.  They got a quick pay day and punted it seems.  I know I can do all six plugs in about a half hour.
I plan on taking it to the dealership, but was curious what a failed turbo experience is like.  Is the exhaust smoking a "smoking gun" for the seals, or does a simple bad coil causing misfires smoke as well?  Will there be any external oil leakage I could see simply with the hood open? Anything else to consider?
2011 black on black SHO.  MDesign CAI, Livernois 93 Stage 4 Plus X RACE 3BAR (running some E85 in to boost octane), 160° Thermostat, Livernois gapped plugs, 3 bar MAP

SHOdded

0.040 gap will make the engine run lean, I would not run a tune on it at all, even if 93.  Tunes are powerful, but also somewhat demanding/fragile regarding tolerances.  So until the gap is corrected to 0.030 or 0.028, return to stock.  HOPEfully that is all it is, and I am basing that on the general misfire code, P0300.  Do not run the engine hard until the gap is corrected.

White smoke is typically fuel injectors not oil leak.  Pulling the plugs to check what is going on is pretty easy on the front bank, and what is recommended to get a grasp on conditions in the combustion chamber.  Could be a faulty valve cover gasket as well, that is a problem on some gen 4 SHOs, while gen 5 typically is the "rear" banks 1-3 gasket.

Do you have fuel smell from the exhaust?  If so, do not drive the car, as you could destroy the catalytic converters.

Did you fill up recently?  Could be bad gas.

I think, since you mentioned vibration, a power balance test is in order along with a compression test on at least 1 cylinder to confirm.  Hopefully all cylinders have good compression.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

ncole

They were @ .030 and he put them back to .030 after he put them to .040 briefly.  I had P0305 and P0306 as well.  I don't think plugs are an issue at all.   

Although my wife for sure put 93 in it, the station she went to is not a normal one I use and I have seen signs stating out of 93 in the past so possibly bad fuel.

I chatted with him some more. He claims he didn't pull the turbo but there is external leakage on the front turbo.  I have not looked yet, it is snowing and blowing pretty nastily out there. 

He did check the oil separators, which I believe is a valve cover pull and said all was good there.

I never smelt fuel or anything for that matter.  He also said the smoke was only coming out of the drivers side.  I couldn't tell that from my mirrors though.

The vibration I assumed was just from low speeds and having at least two cylinders not firing and I wasn't too concerned with that.  He mentioned that he felt the rings were in good shape but didn't quantify how he came to that conclusion.

it won't go more than a mile nice and easy down to a Ford dealership.  When I moved it in the parking lot this morning, no codes and it acted normal.  I hope it will be fine to get to Ford.
2011 black on black SHO.  MDesign CAI, Livernois 93 Stage 4 Plus X RACE 3BAR (running some E85 in to boost octane), 160° Thermostat, Livernois gapped plugs, 3 bar MAP

SHOdded

turbos will have seal leaks, or the oil feed line gaskets will fail.  If you pull the pipe off the front turbo and see pooling oil, the turbo seal is likely toast.  A feed line leak will be obvious without pulling any pipes.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

ZSHO

Check the CAC (Intercooler) for oil pooling while using your oil dipstick.Hows the Motor oil level! 
It could be Bank 2 front turbo knowing the longevity of the turbos being roughly @ 150K especially being original...
Best of luck and keep us updated with the Ford dealer or better yet find yourself a reputable Lincoln dealer in your area. Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Hotrod Lincoln

Mine had the same codes and the same issues. Number 5 injector stuck open. Washed the cylinder wall and resulted in a new long block. Mine did have some problems in the past with a quick, flashing CEL. Never lasted long but noticed lack of power. I have a feeling it had been happening more than just once. Not saying you need a new motor, just relaying our issue. The oil in mine was completely diluted with fuel.
2011 MKS 81K Miles

ncole

Ford should be putting a new turbo in today unfortunately.  I would love to do both, and start fresh but am just doing the front for now due to $$.  I think the big sign was the smoking out the one tail pipe and continuing to do that after the car shut down. 
2011 black on black SHO.  MDesign CAI, Livernois 93 Stage 4 Plus X RACE 3BAR (running some E85 in to boost octane), 160° Thermostat, Livernois gapped plugs, 3 bar MAP

SHOdded

Ah well, at least it is the "cheap" one to fix.  Make sure they put new gaskets on all the feed and return lines.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!