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Author Topic: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!  (Read 4708 times)

Offline SilvererSHO

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2019, 03:58:24 PM »
As noted, not needed if the car is started and driven daily, but it is good habit nonetheless.  Ester oils help in this regard.

Also I believe the engine attempts to start for 10 seconds (at least with keyed ignition) on its own once the START/RUN command is received.  You do not have to hold the key in that position.  In a way it is priming the oil, but not quite, since injectors are not cut off.  For that, the gas pedal MUST be pushed to the floor.

And yes, a true priming system would be a most welcome addition.  Short of that, using low rpm cranking is not a bad way to go.

Quote
Also I believe the engine attempts to start for 10 seconds (at least with keyed ignition) on its own once the START/RUN command is received.

FWIW, That's not my experience with our push button system.  The one time I couldn't get my car started in sub-zero temp was due to it only cranking over for 4-5 seconds at a time.  As soon as it started to fire it just stopped cranking.  I tried it 2-3 times after that and it did the same thing.  I had a battery that was going bad though so maybe that's why it didn't crank longer.
It sounds like you're battery crapped out and otherwise it would of exhibited an extended crank period as kindly mentioned above by SHOdded.
I think we need to move on .  Z

Except I didn't have the pedal to the floor so would it have cranked the full 10 seconds trying to start it?  I'm assuming the computer saw low voltage at the battery and stopped it short of 10 seconds?
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Offline SHOdded

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2019, 04:34:17 PM »
As noted, not needed if the car is started and driven daily, but it is good habit nonetheless.  Ester oils help in this regard.

Also I believe the engine attempts to start for 10 seconds (at least with keyed ignition) on its own once the START/RUN command is received.  You do not have to hold the key in that position.  In a way it is priming the oil, but not quite, since injectors are not cut off.  For that, the gas pedal MUST be pushed to the floor.

And yes, a true priming system would be a most welcome addition.  Short of that, using low rpm cranking is not a bad way to go.

Quote
Also I believe the engine attempts to start for 10 seconds (at least with keyed ignition) on its own once the START/RUN command is received.

FWIW, That's not my experience with our push button system.  The one time I couldn't get my car started in sub-zero temp was due to it only cranking over for 4-5 seconds at a time.  As soon as it started to fire it just stopped cranking.  I tried it 2-3 times after that and it did the same thing.  I had a battery that was going bad though so maybe that's why it didn't crank longer.
I will check to see what the setup for the pushbutton start is.  My experience is with my 2007 Edge, which is a standard keyed ignition.  When I find out, I will relay back.

FYI- As the OP the Topic was specifically targeted on a cold morning startup in the colder winter months thats all!
I appreciate everyone's input on the topic on hand! No Sore points. TIA. Z
Z, I tried this specifically today.  Parked facing downslope.  Car outside for 24+ hours.  Let the ignition crank while I had the gas pedal to the floor.  Then I released the gas pedal and started the car normally.  Seemed to fire up and run smoother right off the bat.  Otherwise it takes a few extra seconds normally to be that smooth.  Albeit the difference in smoothness is not world-changing, you can certainly feel it enough to know it is there.  On a warm start tho (return trip), it did not make a difference, as expected.  Will try again, and see if it was just euphoria this time around LOL.
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If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline ZSHO

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2019, 05:19:45 PM »
As noted, not needed if the car is started and driven daily, but it is good habit nonetheless.  Ester oils help in this regard.

Also I believe the engine attempts to start for 10 seconds (at least with keyed ignition) on its own once the START/RUN command is received.  You do not have to hold the key in that position.  In a way it is priming the oil, but not quite, since injectors are not cut off.  For that, the gas pedal MUST be pushed to the floor.

And yes, a true priming system would be a most welcome addition.  Short of that, using low rpm cranking is not a bad way to go.

Quote
Also I believe the engine attempts to start for 10 seconds (at least with keyed ignition) on its own once the START/RUN command is received.

FWIW, That's not my experience with our push button system.  The one time I couldn't get my car started in sub-zero temp was due to it only cranking over for 4-5 seconds at a time.  As soon as it started to fire it just stopped cranking.  I tried it 2-3 times after that and it did the same thing.  I had a battery that was going bad though so maybe that's why it didn't crank longer.
It sounds like you're battery crapped out and otherwise it would of exhibited an extended crank period as kindly mentioned above by SHOdded.
I think we need to move on .  Z

Except I didn't have the pedal to the floor so would it have cranked the full 10 seconds trying to start it?  I'm assuming the computer saw low voltage at the battery and stopped it short of 10 seconds?
I can attest to the extended cranking being just under 10 seconds a while back in troubleshooting a COP connector rough idle issue IIRC! Z
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 05:22:58 PM by ZSHO »

                  

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Offline SHOdded

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2019, 03:07:44 PM »
As Z has already requested, if we are going to add to this thread, we should bring facts and figures to it, to help enhance everyone's understanding.  If this is to be a collaboration or classroom, mutual respect is essential.

Otherwise, let's just move on.

Thank you.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline ZSHO

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2019, 05:51:37 PM »
Manu Thanks for the assist! I had a feeling it was going to boil down to this. Z

                  

2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Offline 802SHO

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2019, 07:06:29 AM »
I like this method.  I did this this am and held it for 10 seconds, didn't hear any start up chatter.  I'm not sure how this would hurt anything but only help.  Overall I have noticed a lot less start up chatter with mine.  When I used to daily it I noticed after an oil change it hardly made the start up chatter noise...except after first start after the oil change, but as time went on and mileage increased, the chatter would be more frequent after 2-2,500 miles. 

I havent driven it daily in over a couple years now.  Its been getting a lot of oil changes during those times so its seemed much better without doing this.  I will save this method for the first starts after sitting for long periods of time weeks/months.  I will add this to my oil service routine as my first start protocol. 

Like I mentioned previously, I had started experimenting with this year's back and it did help reduce cold start chatter in the cold winter months.  But then I stopped driving it in the winter and stopped doing this. 

Good to see someone else bring this up and I enjoyed this thread as it refreshed this idea to me, as well as gave me a better understanding. 
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Offline Gjkrisa

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2019, 08:27:55 AM »
I like this method.  I did this this am and held it for 10 seconds, didn't hear any start up chatter.  I'm not sure how this would hurt anything but only help.  Overall I have noticed a lot less start up chatter with mine.  When I used to daily it I noticed after an oil change it hardly made the start up chatter noise...except after first start after the oil change, but as time went on and mileage increased, the chatter would be more frequent after 2-2,500 miles. 

I havent driven it daily in over a couple years now.  Its been getting a lot of oil changes during those times so its seemed much better without doing this.  I will save this method for the first starts after sitting for long periods of time weeks/months.  I will add this to my oil service routine as my first start protocol. 

Like I mentioned previously, I had started experimenting with this year's back and it did help reduce cold start chatter in the cold winter months.  But then I stopped driving it in the winter and stopped doing this. 

Good to see someone else bring this up and I enjoyed this thread as it refreshed this idea to me, as well as gave me a better understanding.
When I do oil changes I fill the filter before putting it in.

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Offline 802SHO

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2019, 08:54:20 AM »
Me too.  The filters that have worked the best for me as far as contributing to less chatter noise are the Motorcraft and K&N filter.  Worst in my experience were Fram Ultra Guard and WIX.
2010 SHO non PP, GH upgraded turbos, GH upgraded IC, EPP Hot Pipes, Alky Control Methonal Injection, Alky dual nozzle upgrade, Zex Nitrous, Dicunzolo Gen2 torque mounts, SP542 .028, 160 T, Airaid Intake, 3bar, Thunderstorm Catless Downpipes, custom stainless 2.5" double xpipe w/muffler deletes 4" quad tips, UPR Dual Valve Catch Can, Derale 10000 series 16 row trans cooler, 13+ PP Trans Cooler, Econoaid throttle Body Booster, Mickey Thompson 20x9 SC-5 Wheels, Continental Extreme Contact DW tires F: 245/40/20 R: 275/35/20, H&R Springs all around w/rear cut 1/2", 1" hubcentric wheel spacers m14 1.5 stud/lug conversion, Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge, Tuned by AJP Turbo
Highest Trap Speed 123.22 mph
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PB 11.368 @ 122.68 NED 10/20/19

Offline SM105K

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2019, 11:10:57 AM »
I run the stock Motorcraft oil filter as well. Started my car for the first time in over 10 days. Used the dry start protocol "priming" method, and had zero valve train or chain noise like normal.
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Offline 6500rpm

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2019, 04:16:54 PM »
I've never given this any thought, but I can see the logic. As a matter of practice, I've always killed the injectors and cranked new engines over a bit before the initial start to make sure everything was well lubricated before firing. Back when I first got into the trade, we used to pull the distributor and use a tool with a drill motor to spin the oil pump and prime things up. Northstar engines were notorious for engine clatter from bleed down if they sat for more than a few days and it's been well published that the majority of engine wear happens on cold engine start up, so anything you do to mitigate that by getting everything that needs it lubricated before the rpm's come up would be a positive in my find.  It's a good, out of the box way of looking at things!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 10:14:06 AM by 6500rpm »
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Offline SM105K

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2019, 08:38:36 AM »
I've never given this any thought, but I can see the logic. As a matter of practice, I've always killed the injectors and cranked new engines over a bit before the initial start to make sure everything was well lubricated before firing. Back when I first got into the trade, we used to pull the distributor and use a tool with a drill motor to spin the oil pump and prime things up. Northstar engines were notorious for engine clatter from bleed down if they sat for more than a few days and it's been well published that the majority of engine were happens on cold engine start up, so anything you do to mitigate that by getting everything that needs it lubricated before the rpm's come up would be a positive in my find.  It's a good, out of the box way of looking at things!

I am glad you brought up the Northstar motors.  They were terrible for that. 

"M" 2013 SHO PP | AJPTurbo E30 Tune | GH Intercooler | PPE Downpipes | Custom Magnaflow Resonator | 3rd Cat Delete | Dicunzolo Gen2 Trans Mounts | MSD Coils | SP-542's | UPR Dual Valve Catch Can | K&N Drop In | H&R Springs | Power Stop Brakes | Curva Concept C7's | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber

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Offline ZSHO

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2019, 12:45:33 PM »
I've never given this any thought, but I can see the logic. As a matter of practice, I've always killed the injectors and cranked new engines over a bit before the initial start to make sure everything was well lubricated before firing. Back when I first got into the trade, we used to pull the distributor and use a tool with a drill motor to spin the oil pump and prime things up. Northstar engines were notorious for engine clatter from bleed down if they sat for more than a few days and it's been well published that the majority of engine were happens on cold engine start up, so anything you do to mitigate that by getting everything that needs it lubricated before the rpm's come up would be a positive in my find.  It's a good, out of the box way of looking at things!

I am glad you brought up the Northstar motors.  They were terrible for that.
The very reason I traded in my 18 Jeep with the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 engine. It would sometimes exhibit a brief cold start rattle even within a 24hr threshold period. The SHO has never produced any such rattle since purchasing it new with 2 miles on the OD.. I just hit 75K on the OD. Z
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 01:42:23 PM by ZSHO »

                  

2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Offline SM105K

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2019, 12:56:21 PM »
I've never given this any thought, but I can see the logic. As a matter of practice, I've always killed the injectors and cranked new engines over a bit before the initial start to make sure everything was well lubricated before firing. Back when I first got into the trade, we used to pull the distributor and use a tool with a drill motor to spin the oil pump and prime things up. Northstar engines were notorious for engine clatter from bleed down if they sat for more than a few days and it's been well published that the majority of engine were happens on cold engine start up, so anything you do to mitigate that by getting everything that needs it lubricated before the rpm's come up would be a positive in my find.  It's a good, out of the box way of looking at things!

I am glad you brought up the Northstar motors.  They were terrible for that.
The very reason I traded in my 18 Jeep with the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 engine. It would sometimes exhibit a brief cold start rattle within a 24hr threshold period. The SHO has never produced any such rattle sInce purchasing in new with 2 miles on the OD! I just hit 75K on the OD. Z

Mine too.  Just clicked off 75k as well and my have never produced any such rattle as well. 
"M" 2013 SHO PP | AJPTurbo E30 Tune | GH Intercooler | PPE Downpipes | Custom Magnaflow Resonator | 3rd Cat Delete | Dicunzolo Gen2 Trans Mounts | MSD Coils | SP-542's | UPR Dual Valve Catch Can | K&N Drop In | H&R Springs | Power Stop Brakes | Curva Concept C7's | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber

"The Fukus" 2013 Focus ST | AJPTurbo Flex Fuel Tune | Megan Racing Catless Downpipe | Boomba BOV | FSWerks Short Shifter

Offline 6500rpm

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2019, 05:07:57 PM »

[/quote]The very reason I traded in my 18 Jeep with the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 engine. It would sometimes exhibit a brief cold start rattle even within a 24hr threshold period. The SHO has never produced any such rattle since purchasing it new with 2 miles on the OD.. I just hit 75K on the OD. Z
[/quote]

I haven't seen it in something as new as the "18" Chrysler 3.6l engines, but if you go back a few years we had quite a few that had the "bullet" style hydraulic valve lash adjusters that would bleed down and clatter. Some would pump back up, most required replacing them to get rid of the valve clatter. There was a procedure that involved reving the engine several times to get them to pump up that worked on occasion. There's so many systems on modern engine's that are oil dependent, even down to the exact weight, it's getting really critical. We're lucky with our 3.5l.
2013 SHO PP in Ruby Red Metallic, GTG Billet Grills, Duraflex Racer Chin Spoiler, DriveBright LED Driving/Turn Lights,160 T Stat, MSD Coils, All Royal Purple Lubricants, EPP Gen 2 Duel Intake and hotpipes


Offline SHOdded

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Re: PRIME (First Start) Your ECOBOOST!
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2019, 09:26:04 AM »
Hy-Per Lube Zinc Substitute, anyone used it?
https://amzn.to/33vp6f7

In its blurb, says it protects even against extended shutdown.

•   Provides superior wear protection even when added to oils containing reduced ZDDP levels
•   Maintains a strong oil film at high temperatures
•   Reduces cold start wear after long periods of shut down
•   Environmentally Safe, contains no heavy metals and will not harm emission controls or catalytic converters
•   Does not contain Zinc or Phosphorous Compatible with all motor oils including synthetic.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

 

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