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Chaffed Knock Sensor Wires....

Started by bpd1151, July 09, 2013, 11:42:11 AM

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bpd1151

I'm not sure if this has been posted here or not, I tried digging around and couldn't find the info.

Anyhow, figured I post this here, and all thanks goes out entirely to fellow EBPF member Blaine109 for having been the 1st to discover this issue & complete a post about it.   :bow:

As far as I am aware, FMC (Ford Motor Co.) has still yet to officially acknowledge this problem, and it has been know to not only affect 2010-2012 EB owners, but there have continued to be reports of 2013 owners noticing / experiencing the same issue.

Essentially, on the driver's side of the engine block, sandwiched between the air intake plumbing, and near the thermostat housing, there are two wires, where the loom is simply not long enough, and those wires lead to one of the knock sensors.

These wires rest on the block, and over time, the insulation wears away / chaff's, exposing the wire itself, which in turn either shorts out, or at the very least, sends incorrect signals / info to the ECM and the engine retards itself.

Below is the info (and pictures) that were originally posted on this, and again, thanks to Blaine109 for his discovery, his contributions to the EB community, etc.


________________________________________


"So I got a call today from the service manager with some "news" on my situation. The data that he sent up to Ford was analyzed and they noticed that just preceding the opening of the wastegate one of the knock sensors was reading about 500 ticks more than the other knock sensors. What does the computer do when it detects excessive knock? It cuts power to the engine so that it doesn't go BOOOOOM!!!! Interesting. So, the engineer told the service manager to inspect for a chaffed wire. If one could not be found he was to replace the knock sensor giving the excessive readings.

So I immediately headed over to the dealership so we could start looking. After giving the engine 10-15 minutes to cool we started digging. And what did we find? If you said a chaffed wire then give yourself a cookie. The wires go to one of the knock sensors below the intake manifold. You can see that wires that come up into a connecter and were not wrapped in any electrical tape or in any type of protective plastic shrouding and it was resting right on a 90 degree edge on the engine.

This would explain how my issue started as a once and a while issue and degraded into a full-time issue as the chaffing progressed and got worse.

First remove the engine cover just to make sure it's out of the way so you can get a good look from all angles. Look down between the 2 intake pipes.

See / Refer 1st Attachment Below

We saw a connector with wires that were not wrapped in any extra electrical tape or plastic shrouding.

See / Refer 2nd Attachment Below

From this angle you can better see the wires resting on the engine.

See / Refer 3rd Attachment Below

The chaffing is on the sensor side of the connector which means that they will have to replace the knock sensor. In the meantime we have put a piece of foam insulation on the engine where the wires rest to prevent it from further chaffing and giving false knock readings. I must say that performance is starting to come back. Since we didn't reset the KAM memory, it is taking some time for new values/averages that the PCM uses to run the engine are being used and faded out as new values are factored in and averaged. Power is coming back, the erratic RPM's are fading, the wastegate is bleeding off less and less air with every mile I go.

The new knock sensor should be in Tuesday but depending on what time it comes in I may not get my car back in there till Wednesday. I will have them reset the KAM and also check to see if there are any more software updates available to get me all up to date on everything.

I'll report back Sunday/Monday as I put more miles on my car to let you know if the condition continues to get better as well as what it's like when I get the new sensor in. I will be taking a road trip tomorrow so I will get to get a good like to see if my HWY MPG's are improving. With this issue I was only getting 21 - 22 MPG tops on the HWY when I used to get 26-27 (while driving 80MPH - 90MPH).

Now I would suggest that all of you go out and check for those wires. If they are exposed I would inspect them for any chaffing and then I would recommend wrapping them up in some electrical tape or other means of protection."

DJE624

I'm just about to go digging for this again.  I could not find it before.  This time I am going to take my laptop and some better lighting out with me.  Does anybody have any hints or tips?  Can I get down in there and wrap some electrical tape around it?  Use a zip lock to hold it away?  ETC.  Thanks! Whatever I find, I will report back. 

bpd1151

#2
Better lighting may help.

Removing your CAI (or even if it's the factory box) will certainly provide you with more room to get down in there and "dig around" as you say.

I've seen a myriad of solutions to get those dasterdly wires off, and away from that corner of the valve cover / engine block....

I've seen guys zip tie them out of the way, wedge something inbetween that area, also have seen electrical tape used as you are proposing....

So really, your choice there my friend! :ok:

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


DJE624

#3
Thanks Mike. 

Okay.  I took the top of the air box off.  Then pulled out that intermediate rubber pipe that connects to the air box.  That gave me a great view of the knock sensor wires.  They were actually a half inch off the corner of the block.  Not even touching.  There was a tab on the bottom of one of the  pipes there that the wires were secured to holding them off.  I have one of the last 2012s made so, they may have done something about the problem.  Now I have to think what else caused me to lose power at the top of first gear in my last 1/4 run.  Hope it doesn't happen this Saturday.  I might throw a couple gallons of 100 Octane in just to be sure I have no knock way up there.  ( If you have any ideas, please PM me! )Here are a couple pics.  I'll put bigger ones in the gallery.


SHOdded

I don't know if 1/2 inch is enough, with engine movement and what not.  I would be happier taping some wireloom over it or something, knowing the problem the chafing can cause.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

DJE624

That's a good idea.  Will be doing that.  I thought that the OP had them tight, rubbing.  There was actually quite a bit of room there but you are right.  The engine will have movement.   

TuxedoSHO

I checked mine a while back.. didn't notice any rubbing but I wrapped the wires anyways.

Better to be safe than sorry.

2010 Taurus SHO, Rapid Spec 402A, Non-PP
K&N CAI, Livernois Catted Downpipes, Corsa Catback, Livernois Stage 4+ X Tune, EBC Slotted Rotors, EBC Red Stuff Pads, LMS 160* Thermostat, 3 Bar Map Sensor, Colder NGK  Iridium Plugs, BOV VTA,
20" TSW Nurburgrings Wrapped in Michelin Pilot Super Sports, 15% 3M Tints All Around, Tinted Tail Lights, Dipped Tail Light Chrome, Grille & Fogs
Best Time Yet: 12.76 @ 107MPH

ShoBoat

#7
With the weird occasional spikes in "KR" I was seeing lately. I recalled this reading this thread some time ago. I decided to take a look at mine. Being a 2013 you would figure it was fixed by now. WRONG, it's not. I found the same issue with mine. The sensor wires unprotected resting against the engine on both sides. I haven't taken it out yet to see if it corrected the issue. But I seemed to get more KR events going around left hand turns. My co pilot was pointing out the exact time these events were happening. So you get the picture.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

wasinger3000

Checked mine as well. They are rubbing right on a sharp edge of the head. I don't think they have worn through yet. 
13' SHO, Non-PP, Tuned by Torrie, Meth injection, 3 bar, 170* stat, custom axle back exhaust, Prosport Boost gauge.
15' F150 Lariat Sport, all the options, 3.5L Eco. (fiancée ride.)
13' GTCS, will be missed.

panther427

2013 SHO

ShoBoat


Quote from: wasinger3000 on August 22, 2014, 10:46:32 AM
Checked mine as well. They are rubbing right on a sharp edge of the head. I don't think they have worn through yet.

Mine haven't worn through either, however I still believe that they were throwing off the sensor on mine just rubbing on the really hot metal. The wires have a really thin insulator, with no other protection. But I will know better today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

SHOnUup

Had this issue too. They proved to be a PIA to get some tape around.  If I remember correctly I was able to unplug and move around another wire to hold them further away from block. Wasn't monitoring then, so no feedback on a change.
2011 Sterling Gray Metallic SHO non PP,
12.4211 @ 110.28 Livernois 3bar tune & CAI,
Added since...PPE catless Dpipes, Megan coilovers, Powergrid adjustable end links, and EBC slotted rotors and red stuff pads.
Tommy Designs grille with carbon fiber hydrographics, fender badges and fog bezels hydrodipped also, tinted windows, head & taillights, debadged trunk with all chrome plasti-dipped, black calipers, obdlink mx scantool running torque pro on 7" tablet.

ShoBoat


Quote from: SHOnUup on August 22, 2014, 12:00:14 PM
Had this issue too. They proved to be a PIA to get some tape around.  If I remember correctly I was able to unplug and move around another wire to hold them further away from block. Wasn't monitoring then, so no feedback on a change.

Ya that's what I had to do. I used zip ties to move them away from the block.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

SHOnUup

Seems like the best bet. I wonder if the supposed KR at heat soak might be these wires once block is more heated?
2011 Sterling Gray Metallic SHO non PP,
12.4211 @ 110.28 Livernois 3bar tune & CAI,
Added since...PPE catless Dpipes, Megan coilovers, Powergrid adjustable end links, and EBC slotted rotors and red stuff pads.
Tommy Designs grille with carbon fiber hydrographics, fender badges and fog bezels hydrodipped also, tinted windows, head & taillights, debadged trunk with all chrome plasti-dipped, black calipers, obdlink mx scantool running torque pro on 7" tablet.

ShoBoat

So far on my drive this morning it looks like I can state it's corrected the issue. Lots of different driving, from highway speeds to stop and go traffic. And some spirited corners. The max I got during the drive was 0.5 KR. Even after a decent heat soak. Last night I got a sudden spike on a "spirited" turn on my way home, 4.5KR it nearly gave me a heart attack as it trigger my alarm on Torque. The crazy thing is it went from -KR of 2.5 to positive 4.5 with no change to throttle input. Thats when I realized something else was going on. Over the past few weeks, I would get random spikes, I even got KR once by revving the engine with no load??? So to that end.... CHECK YOU WIRES lol.
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.