E-85 injection vs meth injection

[FoMoCoSHO]

So I've been thinking about this as E-85 is easily available for me.

Apparently others are doing it as well...

http://www.ctsvowners.com/forum/71-cooling/17946-ethanol-vs-methanol-injection.html

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f303/ethanol-injection-162247/

I'm not concerned with the octane differences of the two as I will still be mixing 15% in the DI system. (E-85 has crazy high effective octane when directly injected)

From my reading, it looks like it would be marginally safer to handle and actually be better for fuel volume.

I'd love to hear your thoughts or experiences on the topic.

[EcoPowerParts]

The reason I didn't do a single injector in the TB is I was scared for the back cylinders to go lean and detonate.

[FoMoCoSHO]

The reason I didn't do a single injector in the TB is I was scared for the back cylinders to go lean and detonate.

Isn't meth injected right before the TB?

I'm interested in running a meth kit substituting E-85

[FoMoCoSHO]

The reason I didn't do a single injector in the TB is I was scared for the back cylinders to go lean and detonate.

Wouldn't the extra fuel volume when compared to meth make corn a better option?

Is this a problem with meth injection as well?

[EcoPowerParts]

I've never done meth, I personally don't like it.

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'm out of fuel so I've gotta figure something out so I can get those pretty downpipes and cutout on the car.

This seems like the path of least resistance and expense.

[IHeartGroceries]

Substituting methanol in a meth injection system with E85, as a matter of convenience, correct?
What impact might running gasoline have on that system?
Is the tank vented? And in the engine bay? Gasoline constantly vaporizes. At least alcohol has a much higher flash point.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Substituting methanol in a meth injection system with E85, as a matter of convenience, correct?
What impact might running gasoline have on that system?
Is the tank vented? And in the engine bay? Gasoline constantly vaporizes. At least alcohol has a much higher flash point.

Convenience, yes.
Fuel volume, yes.
Less corrosive and allegedly easier to handle, yes.

Vaporization and flashpoint need some research attention, thanks!

[FoMoCoSHO]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/flash-point-fuels-d_937.html

[IHeartGroceries]

I think this platform is essentially leading up to the same eventual developments made on the Mazda DISI MZR.

It was basically tapping out upgraded OE fuel pumps, grappling with the shortcomings of WMI and with a dash of Ethanol blending and tuning mashed into those two supplement fuel solutions.

This led to the eventual development of a 5th port injector solution. Piggybacking off of the OE fuel tank and upgrading the LPFP to boost pressure on the supply line, which is what is tapped into.

Obvious benefits are, no secondary tanks, no mixing, no running low on fuel, less liklihood of mechanical failure and you ditch the nozzle and replace it with a legitimate injector. Logic and control in a secondary, stand alone fuel controller. And then you need your ECU tuning solution...

This shouldn't be impossible. Just expensive and the head ache of being the first.

Or.didn't 4DR.dapple in it a bit?

[SHOdded]

If you wanted to go that route (aux port injection/upgraded fuel lines etc), yes, 4DR has "been there, done that".

[IHeartGroceries]

I thought I'd read some posts a while back regarding his experimentations. But guess I'm slightly confused on how one member here has been successful building an 800 horsepower beast utilizing OE. Whereas 4DR maxed out well before that and had to resort to PI.

So, which is it?

As far as I'm concerned, without some significant support, with upgraded components like injectors and pumps, which would be very expensive anyway, expanding to PI is a cheaper solution that should still provide quite a bit of fueling headroom.

The Mazda community traveled the same path. And the eventual solution was PI, which I'm fairly certain was the source of research for 4DR, as he brought alot of his hypothetics to some of the "experts" on MSF.

Of course, depending on your eventual goals, a WMI system may provide what you need. If you see something a little more lofty in your future, you'll wish you'd just skipped over and dappled directly into a more resolute solution.

I'm not privy to 4DRs explorations though. What limitations did he run into?

[SHOdded]

The limits 4DR hit were with the transmission more than the engine (with stock internals).  You can read his Flex build here:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,334

And his summarized view of fueling upgrade here:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,462

[wasinger3000]

What is the comparison on 98% ethanol vs 100% methanol? I have access to either one. Any major difference in the way they act?

[SHOdded]

The one difference that immediately stands out is the cooling property of methanol over ethanol.  To quote,
The main distinction between methanol and ethanol is that methanol has a lower caloric weight (or the amount of energy available to burn when combusted), higher specific heat (takes more heat to burn the mixture) and a high heat of vaporization (when vaporized can cool down intake air temps dramatically). Ethanol is generally the same characteristics and properties as methanol, but does not cool down the intake charge as well and as mentioned above costs substantially more then methanol.